Talk:Damage types

Summoner buff chart does not include the summoner emblem but it does include the avenger and destroyer emblems, let's fix that.

Damage Calculation Section is Incorrect

The calculation listed for damage is incorrect. The correct calculation appears to be:

Step 1: Apply weapon modifier Step 2: Round to the nearest integer Step 3: Apply all other mods, added up Step 4: Round to the nearest integer

Example (using stated formula): 14% damage from Beetle Armor (attack version), 17% from Ruthless Vampire Knives, no beetles active, 20% from Menacing accessories, 37% from accessory effects.

29 base damage * 1.17 * 1.57 * 1.14 = 60.73 damage, rounds to 61

I have this setup active and the in-game tooltip for V Knives shows 58 damage

Using the default modifier for Ruthless (18% damage instead of 17%) would yield 61.25 damage and still round to 61

Example (using my formula): Ruthless = 18% damage

29 * 1.18 = 34.22 (17% is closer so that is what is displayed)

round to 34

34 * 1.71 = 58.14, rounds to 58 (exactly what the game displays)

The currently-stated formula has two errors: It misses the rounding after the weapon mod is first and singly applied, and it allows multiplicative effects between armor and accessories (which do not exist)

It also has a third error, which is that it leaves no room in the equation for buffs like Well Fed and Tipsy, which are neither armor-based nor from accessories.

.. this calculation above is still incorrect Lets look at other Example:

1.)Mythical Razorblade Typhoon (60+15%), Spectre Mask Armor (+20%):

60 * 1.15 * 1.2 = 69*1.2 = 82.8

In game it has 82 damage, 60+1.15=69 (no rounding here, to get independent from). I think there will be no rounding at the end. It only takes/shows the first part of the number.

2.)Godly Bubble Gun (70+14%), Spectre Mask Armor (+20%), Menacing Avenger Emblem (12% and 4%), Menacing Sorcerer Emblem (15% and 4%), Menacing Celestial (15% and 4%):

70 * 1.14 * (1+0.2+0.16+0.19+0.19)=70 * 1.14 * (1.64)=138.852

In game it has 139 damage but there were no rounding at the Typhoon (1.)). So I also think weapon get rounded first.

round(70 * 1.14) * (1.74) = round(79.8) * 1.74 = 80 * 1.74 = 139.2

139 fits!

Conclusion:

round(weapon base damage * weapon modifier) * (1+sum of armor+sum of accessories + sum accessories bonuses) = result

round_down(result) = damage in game

Also tested with well fed, Clairvoyance and Magic Power. These were also added in the multiplier, so it is (1+sum of armor+sum of accessories + sum accessories bonuses + sum of bonuses from potions, food, furniture, .. ). Tested some other examples, could not find any errors anymore but can't say it is for 100% true but nearly. So in short:

round_down( round(weapon base damage * (1 + modifier)) * (1 + sum of bonuses) ) = damage shown in game

Example:

Ruthless Rainbow Rod (72 base+ 18%), Spectre Mask Armor (+20%), Celestial Emblem (15%), Avenger Emblem (12%), Sorcerer Emblem (15%), Destroyer Emblem (10%), Celestial Stone (10%), all Menacing (5*4%), Well Fed (5%), Clairvoyance (5%), Magic Power (20%)

round_down( round(72 * (1+0.18)) * (1+0.2+0.15+0.12+0.15+0.1+0.1+5*0.04+0.05+0.05+0.2) ) = round_down( round(84.96)*(2.32)) = round_down( 197.2) = 197

(only Equipment, without potion, fed and clair: round_down( round(84.96)*(2.02)) = round_down( 171.7) = 171) -DyingElk

Recheck your calulations. your calculation in the vampire knive has 1.57 in it when it should be 1.37 that you stated above. similar mistakes are in the other calculation -Michelangelo42

don't know what you mean. Regarding to my computation or to this on top? 1.57 is 14% Armor, 20% from Menacing accessories, 37% from accessory effects.DyingElk

OK. i see what you did. you added the 37% for damage effects with the 20% from the menacing. this messes up your calculations. for example 1.40*100=140 but 1.20*1.20*100=144. also what were the assesories for the sets? i would like to hep you out and prefrm some tests. please put the list on my user page thank you. (talk) 16:08, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

sratch what i said up top. please give me a list of the items and accessories and there prefixes either below this comment or put them on my user page User:Michelangelo in the comment section. Michelangelo42 (talk) 17:17, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

tested again to get better examples

1.)Godly Flairon (+15% damage) without anything else:

66*1.15=75.9

76 shown in game -> some rounding is going on

2.)wearing Beetle Armor (Scale Mail, added together +14%)

75.9*1.14=86.526

76*1.14=86.64

86 shown in game -> the rounding only appears after applying weapon modifier

3.)I tested the outgoing damage with Beetle Shell (added together +11%) and Destroyer Emblem (+10%) on a Mimic with 30 defense

round(66*1.15)*(1+0.11+0.10) = (76)*(1.21) = 91.96 (91 shown in game)

During some testing I observed +-15% damage distribution (probably uniform)

So the minimal damage to Mimic would be:

91.96*0.85-15 = 63.166 without rounding or

91.00*0.85-15 = 62.35 with rounding down

I observed a damage of 62 -> so there is a rounding down at the end (the damage of a weapon is equal to the shown number in game)

The damage itself is also rounded but at least one.

I will change the wiki page soon. DyingElk

Update: +-15% only true for Flairon!! Some values for other weapons would be good.

summon damage
in this text, it is said that minion can crit. whereas in the different summoning summoning items, it is said that they just cannot. is it different depen,ding on the type of minion? are there some that just can? when i look at damage values from mine, its just unrelaible, buit doesnt seem to extend all the way to the double. plus this should be even more obvious given how armor work.
 * I brought this question here. Apparently the latter is correct; minions can not crit. This also matches how Well Fed provides crit to ranged, melee and magic damage, but not to minion damage. NoseOfCthulhu (talk) 18:12, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Additional Calculations
I have found this page very useful and would appreciate it if it were to be further expanded to include a formula to calculate DPS which includes every single factor including buffs, ammo damage, critical hits and whatever else. To do this I suggest DPS=60/UseTime*((1-CritChance)*(Attack-Defense/2)+CritChance*(2*Attack-Defense/2)) However the resulting Damage can never be less than one and the damage reduction from defense is always rounded up. Since the probability of getting a crit and not getting a crit always sums to 1, the damage for each can be multiplied the probability of it happening. The Excell version of the calculation is DPS=IF(UseTime=0,0,60/UseTime)*((1-CritChance)*MAX(Attack-ROUNDUP(Defense/2),1)+CritChance*MAX(2*Attack-ROUNDUP(Defense/2),1)) But this still has to be made to include stuff like poison, multiple shots per use, secondary attacks and the entire use time calculation which is not yet on the wiki. Note I can keep the probabilities from multiplying by the use time each as: AX - AY = A(X - Y) 101.165.70.177 09:30, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

critical hit chance % increase vs. damage % increase
By doing simple maths and agains targets with no defense, both damage % increase and critical hit chance%, increase the average damage output by the same ammount But agains targets with defense (pretty much all enemies), a critical hit chance gives lower average damage output. Shouldn't this be noted in the main article?--EstebanLB (talk) 18:36, 6 August 2015 (UTC)