Talk:Minishark

Ammunition
"The Minishark is a machine gun that can be bought from the Arms Dealer and uses any form of ammunition." Does ammunition mean only the three items on that page - i.e., bullets - or does it include seeds, arrows, sand, or stars? Perhaps a different word - "bullets" - should be used, since seeds and arrows clearly also fit the dictionary definition of "ammunition". --Einstein9073 19:03, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah that always bothered me. It's based on the fact that the Ammunition page always only listed bullets, until recently (when I added notes about other ammunition types there). The Ammo slots hold arrows too, and I assume seeds. The Ammunition page could use a redesign, and then the gun pages should be tweaked accordingly.  Equazcion ( talk ) 19:12, 19 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Ammo consumption
"The Minishark's special ability makes it so that it will averagely shoot about 333 (250*133%)..." Erm, isn't it supposed to be a 33% chance of not using ammo? Because that would be 375 rounds (250*150%), not 333 rounds. Woden 01:14, 15 August 2011 (UTC) (I suck at Wiki formatting. :
 * Yes, it's a 33% chance of not using ammo. No, it's not 375 rounds. I'm not sure where you even got that number from. Actually, there's probably something I'm missing... Math, how does it work? --Lunboks 01:24, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 150% would be the equation if there were a 50% chance of not consuming ammo.
 * In other words: One third of the 250-count stack will not be consumed on average, which equals 83 shots rounded. 250 (actual stack) + 83 average gain = 333.
 * Your way, 375 shots from a 250-count stack would be a 125 shot gain, which is half the actual stack of 250, a 50% gain.  Equazcion ( talk ) 01:27, 15 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, probably should have explained this better. It's based on reciprocals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplicative_inverse). A 33% reduction means that you are using 2/3rds as much ammo, and to figure out how much ammo you would effectively have, you use the reciprocal of that, 3/2 (150%). (2/3) * (3/2) = 1, which is why you use that rather than 4/3 (133%). It helps if you keep in mind doubling and halving: if you double a number (2/1), then you need to halve (1/2) it to get back to the original number ( (1/2) * (2/1) = 1). Woden 02:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, probably should have explained this better. It's based on reciprocals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplicative_inverse). A 33% reduction means that you are using 2/3rds as much ammo, and to figure out how much ammo you would effectively have, you use the reciprocal of that, 3/2 (150%). (2/3) * (3/2) = 1, which is why you use that rather than 4/3 (133%). It helps if you keep in mind doubling and halving: if you double a number (2/1), then you need to halve (1/2) it to get back to the original number ( (1/2) * (2/1) = 1). Woden 02:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

ok there is a huge confusion due to math. i can see an additive percentage gain or (two) multiplicative percentages. 1/3 + 1/5 = 5/15 + 3/15 = 8/15 = .53 (repeating 3's) = 153% (computers love dropping final numbers' digits). 1.33 * 1.2 = 1.596 = 160% (rounded up) OR  4/3 * 1.2 [basically 1/5 already done] = 1.6 = 160%. any questions? i personally think it is the later equation due to my experiences with games' percentages with math. 96.13.59.60 03:50, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The source code uses fractions rather than percents. The statement for deciding a random occurrence looks something like "if rand(10) = true then...", meaning "pick a random number from 1 to 10, and if that number equals 1, do ..." Stacked randoms (though I haven't looked at those yet) probably look like "if rand(10) or rand(3) then..." My math skills aren't awesome so I wouldn't know exactly how to calculate a percent that totals the two chances.  Equazcion ( talk ) 03:58, 15 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify the math:
 * You safe about 83 shots while firing the first 250 shots
 * After that you save 28 shots while firing the 83 shots
 * After that you save 9 shots while firing the 28 shots
 * After that you save 3 shots while firing the 9 shots
 * After that you save 1 shots while firing the 3 shots


 * Disregarding rounding this sums up to about 375 shots.--DoubleFloat 18:11, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah looks like I was wrong there, Woden seems to have had a good point, though I don't know where he got 150% from even though that does work out to the correct answer.  Equazcion ( talk ) 18:39, 15 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * You get 150% by dividing available quantity by usage rate (on average, you use 2/3's of a shot per shot), so you'd have 250 / (2/3) = 250 * 1.5 which is where he gets the 150% from. --JonTheMon 18:45, 15 August 2011 (UTC)