Guide talk:Class setups

Guide content
I can understand gameplay guides in a game wiki, but this page - why does it even exist? All the actual content was created by one IP and it merely lists some obvious synergies between weapons and armor bonuses with very bad examples.

Perhaps this page could be saved with a complete rewrite, with setups split in categories per damage type and arranged by order when the items in question are commonly acquired by players? -


 * That's what it means to be a 'stub' article; it has to start somewhere. There didn't appear to be a similarly generic guide anywhere; otherwise, I would have flagged this one for deletion. If there is one, suggest a merge.
 * If you have content ideas, please add them. Structuring the page with an early game/mid game/late game format seems sensible.
 * I placed a link to this guide at the top of the main 'weapons' page to increase its prominence and speed its growth. --Chibs84 05:04, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for adding that ^. The page would be growing more if guides weren't blocked to editing by non-admins, apparently. Its a great idea, but it could use some more description, like maybe how to use it and the actual statistics of the weaponry included in the class. I would love if guides were open to editing.... --Knightsabers 2:37 PM, 5/31/13


 * According to the Group Rights you should now be able to edit those articles, but for some reason it isn't working. I've asked someone to take a look at that, but it may take some time, considering a simple change to the group rights apparently isn't working. --0icke0 (talk) 09:49, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I consider this guide to be really helpfull but it does need a lot of updates and better information. --172.68.51.107 21:53, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Construction character?
(Since we can't edit right now, I'll just drop this suggestion here.) First of all, this isn't really a "weapon setups" guide but rather a "classes" or "character build" guide. Secondly, maybe a character build (or class) used for construction rather than fighting would be a nice addition. I don't know if it would be necessary to put it in here, but it'd be helpful nevertheless. I'm thinking about a character that's fast and agile, using items like Hamdrax, Toolbelt, Ruler (for exact building), diving gear (underwater building), and some weapons and armor for quickly dispatching monsters (depending on build location - how about a Hallow fortress?). I've been looking for stuff I could use the past hour, so maybe I could make this faster for others once I can edit? - Suchtie (talk) 12:49, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I really like that idea! I'll get right on it, and while I'm at it I'll just make an entire "Other Sets" section! ~Nareto64 00:07, 3 February 2014


 * Nareto64, your grammar/syntax is not that great. I fixed all of your errors, though, and will continue to. :) ~JDLENL

No Chlorophyte?
How competitive and up to date is this guide? I understand that Hallowed Armor is good, but is there really no character class that would prefer to use Chlorophyte Armor?


 * The page is now fully up-to-date. ~Nareto64 00:08, 3 February 2014

Change Name?
I've recently rewritten this page, and i believe this page should be renamed to "Guide: Class Setup".~Nareto64

1.2.3
I added the suggestion for the page to be updated to 1.2.3. If you update the page to 1.2.3, please tell me below. Thanks! -The Penguin

Celestial Emblem?
The Celestial Emblem has two effects: increasing Magic damage, and making it much easier to collect mana stars. These are very useful effects, certainly, but not so much for a melee-oriented character. So why is it listed as a recommended accessory for the Post-Frost Moon Melee Class? Surely there are better choices.
 * Indeed. I'm not sure why it's listed; perhaps the author assumed it to be helpful, or makes heavy usage of magic despite being a melee player. In any case it should probably be replaced by something more melee-oriented. If you want, you could choose the alternative yourself, from the accessory list. NoseOfCthulhu (talk) 02:40, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

What are the Asterisks for?
I can't find anything on the page that says what they are for, yet some items have them and some don't. Can anyone explain?
 * Huh, that's right, never noticed, saw them on so many items I thought it was just a bullet point. - Spinfx (talk) 08:15, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * They're broken bullet lists, I got it fixed. &#91;&#91;Seamus P&#124;Seamuspotter&#93;&#93; (talk) 05:41, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

celestial cuffs over celestial emblem?
In the mage pre- mechanical bosses accessories it says to take celestial cuffs instead of celestial emblem, and use an avenger emblem instead. how ever, putting the celestial magnet into the avenger emblem and creating the celestial emblem, which adds 3% more damage. it's the same item's but combined differently and you get 3% more damage. isn't it right?

Christmas Tree Sword / Terra Blade
How come the Christmas tree sword is listed as a pre-celestial melee weapon and the Terra Blade is not? Terra Blade has higher damage, for starters. I have tried both of these at legendary modifier, and I cannot see how Christmas Tree Sword could be better. It'd be nice if Terra Blade was added/swapped, as it's better. CurlingKing72 (talk) 13:42, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Help
Somebody added classes but I am not sure if it's vandalism or not. Thanks. MightyDirtKing (talk) 06:18, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

A Note to Editors
Before deleting information, please understand that this guide is designed to give functional advice to players who may wish to make their Terraria experience a little more interesting. The first sentence begins: "While Terraria has no formal player class or leveling system..."

This is a player-made guide. It is not only for serious players looking to fight within a certain established "class", but also for players who want to have a little fun with more unusual class setups. You may find some setups silly, and feel they don't belong; others may enjoy the challenge.

Instead of deleting, ask yourself "How can I make this better?" "Can I make this better?" If you can improve on a class, please do. – Ferretwings (talk ) 22:55, 4 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I did read this note before I deleted the “Fun” section a few weeks ago, and I went ahead and deleted it anyways because I disagree. Stuff like this belongs in Guide:Ideas if it belongs anywhere on this wiki at all. I might even recommend creating a new guide for vanity or cosplay. Just leave it out of Class Setups. People come to this page wanting to learn how to play the game efficiently and effectively. Those who want to learn how to play the game inefficiently and ineffectively should look elsewhere. Besides, you could add mountains of these character cosplay “setups”; who says it has to stop at Link and Mario? Allowing these “fun” classes to stay would set a dangerous precedent. If I went ahead and added “classes” for those who want to cosplay as Hollow Knight, or Samus, or Simon Belmont, or Solid Snake, or Dante from the devil may cry series, or their poorly drawn Sonic the Hedgehog OC, and filled up this page with more than fifty such entries, would you really be okay with that?
 * I’m going to delete these entries again. I see no reason for them to be on this page. If people want to learn how to have fun, make a separate guide for that.--Baconfry39 (talk) 18:35, 17 April 2019 (UTC)


 * You read my Note to Editors, and rather than opening up a discussion about it, you took it upon yourself to delete the classes anyway? When two editors disagree, there needs to be a discussion, and a consensus. Although I disapprove of your actions, you have made some valid points. (I will continue this in ) – Ferretwings (talk )

Fun "category" out of context
I think that "characters cosplays" or however we should call them do not belong on this page. We should maybe delete them or move them to a new stub page specific for that kind of content. --172.68.51.107 22:02, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Tavernkeep's sentries
Tavernkeep's sentries and armor are not there. I would put them myself, but I do not know how to do it. Fi12358 (talk) 09:00, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

End-game for Non-PC users?
Almost all of the end-game recommendations are PC only. At least one alternative for other platforms would be helpful. It makes it sound as if console/mobile/3DS players don't have a viable end-game setup. 172.31.20.208 10:52, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Pre-Lunar Events/Pre-Golem setups?
Is there a particular reason why the Christmas Tree Sword, Candy Corn Rifle, Piranha Gun, and Bat Scepter show up only here and not in the Pre-Golem setups, when you can in fact get them at that point? Is it the combination of accessories that make it more viable or something? Chuck673225114 (talk) 05:54, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * No, there is no particular reason. In fact, some of these items used to be mentioned in the Pre-Golem section, but have been removed there for being deemed "bad" (see this edit and this one). Agreeing that the Christmas Tree Sword and Candy Corn Rifle have a comparably low effectiveness (judging by other gear available at the time), I only added the Piranha Gun and Bat Scepter in the Pre-Golem section and removed all of them from Pre-Lunar Events. Feel free to change anything you find questionable. Thank you very much for pointing this out! This guide is highly frequented by numerous players, rendering its accuracy an issue of utmost importance. --Rye Greenwood (talk) 11:05, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Recent edits not helpful
Slashing large sections of helpful info.

Why?

I understand if somebody wants to move primarily cosmetic sets to their own area, but this page is much less useful now that somebody's gutted it.

If I understood wiki editing at all I'd undo it, but the time it would take to figure it out and fix isn't worth it, considering there's other (presumably useful) edits since then that would need accommodating.

There are four primary damage types in this game that a player may build toward. That doesn't mean every set must be built toward melee, ranged, magic, or summoning dps. Cutting entire sets because they "don't make sense" isn't making this page any better.


 * Hi, thanks for your concern. Do you refer the latest ones (which were done a few days ago)? I've found other people actually not like some deletions. I might readd some deleted parts in that case. -- Murrayzero (talk) 16:04, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

About the subclasses....
The Healer and Tank. I feel like they might need a section of their own, since it is only a setup people will use on multiplayer. Personally i wouldn't even consider them "classes"; they are just Mage and Melee setups but with defensive accesories, those can just be added to the "Mixed" list. Dedicating an entire section to them feels unecessary, as i consider this guide to focus more on single player builds. Just my opinion on this. --
 * The only thing that i can think is, we can make them in a subsection called "Multiplayer only" where necessary. People apparently didn't like seeing them deleted, meaning that these flavors aren't that useless to not keep. But at the same time, they work better in MP so excluding them is not really a good idea at this point. Alternatively, it's possible to keep them in "other" section, or even in more specific pages. But i don't think these are viable in terms of visibility. Anyway, thank you for cleaning the guides, and for the feedback. I'll see if i'm able to gather more opinions from other editors. (by the way, remember to add the four "~" next time. It's how you sign your comments in the talk page) -- Murrayzero (talk) 18:11, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
 * This is my opinion on the issue: This guide is called "Class setups". Why do we feel the need this to have this sort of page? Since it has, as of now, gone through 949 edits, it may be worth having a look at the history. The guide has been created in December 2011 – only 7 months after the foundation of the wiki – with the following lead section:
 * In Terraria there are many amazing weapons. There are also amazing abilities that can be used to improve these weapons. This page will show the reader what some of these 'Setups' are.&thinsp;&#91;Dec 2011&#93;
 * In those times, the page mainly listed specific setups for confined periods of time within game progression. Apparently, the aim was to provide a fixed set of items a player can apply one-to-one.
 * Later, after a revamp in February 2014, the basic structure of what we are presented with today was laid out. The page was divided into "Earlygame", "Middlegame", "Hardmode", and "Endgame". Those sections were further divided into several "Melee", "Ranger", and "Caster" setups, mainly characterized by the type of armor. The lead section during that time read the following:
 * In Terraria, there are many different types of weapons, armor and accessories. By combining these Weapons, Armor and Accessories in different ways, many different abilities and bonuses etc. become available to the player and may enable them to take on difficult tasks such as defeating Bosses and the Pumpkin Moon and Frost Moon. This page lists some common synergies, setups and ideal reforge prefixes. [...]&thinsp;&#91;Feb 2014&#93;
 * It seems like the aim has shifted – the page now claims to prepare the player for the Pumpkin and Frost Moons, in addition to giving general setup information up until that point. This may or may not be attributable to the fact that these events posed the greatest challenge in the game, serving somewhat as the "last battles", at that time. Nonetheless, the "Melee–Ranger–Caster" structure was retained. A first additional section appeared at the bottom of the page, containing Builder sets (initiated by a comment on this talk page: see below).
 * An interesting edit was made in February 2015, with a new lead section:
 * While Terraria has no formal player class or leveling system, weapons can be grouped into four distinct categories- Melee, Ranged, Magic and Summoning. These four weapon types have their own driving mechanics, and many types of Armor and Accessories to accompany them. As there is currently no elemental balancing- say, enemies weak specifically to Magic damage- and equipment slots are limited enough to make being 'well-rounded' detrimental, many players choose to specialize in one or two of these "classes".&thinsp;&#91;Feb 2015&#93;
 * From my understanding, this is when the term "class" has first been defined as "damage type" – which is how it is still commonly used nowadays. According to this lead section (and judging by the rewrite template with the comment "too much "this is what I did", not enough actual advice"&thinsp;&#91;Feb 2015&#93;), the focus was on categorizing weapons, armor, and accessories by damage type.
 * With rolling out, the page grew in size and more and more specific setups and exotic recommendations were presented. This caused a major revamp in July 2015 (which constituted a design overhaul as well, by the way: The content was structured in tables and that design remained unchanged until the latest major revamp in December 2018). The edit summary of this change read "Rather then everyone listing his favorite combination, provide an overview what is available when and which class it falls in. [...]&thinsp;" and the lead section was enhanced by the following sentence (among others):
 * In general, it is recommended to focus on one class (especially further into the game), as many armors, accessories and buffs only benefit a specific class and using a mix of weapons can reduce your damage output.&thinsp;&#91;Feb 2015&#93;
 * This helps further narrowing down the aim of the page at that time: In order to help the player maximizing their damage output, it provided them with gear recommendations, split into damage types. Each section, from Pre-Hardmode to Endgame, contained recommendations about weapons, armor, accessories, and buffs for melee, ranged, magic, summoning, and (only until Hardmode) throwing. It is probably safe to say that this structure is what we are still basing on today.
 * "Other" classes were included as well, again fairly similar to the current situation. As of September 2015, Building, Fishing, Exploring/Mining, and Wiring were covered.
 * Now, a very interesting edit was made by an anonymous editor on 10 September 2015, introducing the "Tank class" for the first time. Surprisingly, it got reverted by another anonymous editor only 20 minutes afterwards. There was no edit summary explaining this removal of content, but apparently it has already been deemed inappropriate or problematic at that time. The original editor did not make any attempts at re-adding the section.
 * It would take ten months for it to reappear (being added by a registered user), along with another at present well-known "class", the Yoyo-Warrior. This addition got removed several times by different users as well, but the editor did not cease to re-add the content. Some edit summaries at this time read
 * "Removed the vandalism classes? ;)"&thinsp;&#91;28 Jul 2016&#93;,
 * "Invaluable information. Tank is basically melee class, and extra section, useless."&thinsp;&#91;2 Aug 2016&#93;, and
 * "Vandalism Undone. Stop adding those useless classes as this page is for general combating. [...]"&thinsp;&#91;10 Aug 2016&#93;.
 * Another (unexplained, thus reverted) deletion of the Tank and Yoyo-Warrior content occured in October 2017 . Ever since, it has not been deleted again – until recently.
 * What do we learn from all this?
 * 1. A "class" is considered a set of weapons, armor, accessories, and buffs, characterized solely by damage type.
 * Hence, there are currently five classes: melee, ranged, magic, summoning, and throwing.
 * 2. While the purpose of the Guide:Class setups may have shifted throughout the history of the page, it has been roughly the following for four years:
 * Provide a comprehensive set of class recommendations for all stages of the game in order to help players maximize damage output and survivability. Additionally, list gear setups that may not fall under one of the classes.
 * Such additional setups are accepted under a separate "Other" heading. Any addition of content not belonging to a class in the main section was met with rejection (Tank: 7 deletions, Yoyo-Warrior: 7 deletions, Healer: 2 deletions).
 * Applying this to the current issue of whether or not to keep the two problematic "classes", neither of them is appropriate in the main section, since they do not provide information about gear around a separate damage type and are thus no classes.
 * Three additional factors decrease the value of these setups for players:
 * They are exclusively effective in Multiplayer, which is not stated on the page.
 * They are limited to a certain period of time in game progress (Tank: Post-Moon Lord because of Solar Flare armor, Healer: Post-Plantera until Pre-Moon Lord because of Spectre armor which is not sufficient in the endgame).
 * They are merely compilations or rearrangements of existing classes (Tank: Melee, Healer: Magic).
 * Lastly, I would like to add a personal argument and outline my experience with and usage of this guide:
 * After having beaten a boss, I would usually visit this page and gather information about what weapons and armor to acquire next. When I started playing Terraria, I would care less about the specific classes, but as soon as I started class playthroughs, it became immensely useful to have those recommendations split into damage type. What I appreciated most was that I had a quick overview over the important information. When I was looking for ideas what to do post-Moon Lord, I consulted Guide:Walkthrough; Guide:PvP (which is sadly rather outdated now) for the rare occasions I played multiplayer. Never did I consider Guide:Class setups to be the place to look for this kind of information.
 * I realize it might not have been too smart to end with this very personal argument, because the rest is more important, but oh well...
 * The conclusion I draw is close to MurrayZero's: Either move the content to a separate section at the bottom or move it to other pages. I prefer the latter, with namely Guide:PvP.
 * --Rye Greenwood (talk) 02:24, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Since there have been no further objections (for one month since the beginning of this thread) against the inclination of all three of us discussants to move these sections elsewhere, I will proceed to move the infocards about the Tank and Healer classes to Guide:PvP. Please do not just undo this, but instead state your reasons and concerns here. --Rye Greenwood (talk) 19:00, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * While I have no direct objections, a Healer/Tank character is useful not just for PvP, but for multiplayer as a whole. In fact, a tank is specifically designed to redirect aggro in PvE, but not PvP. Someone looking for information on how to support their friend on a 2-person playthrough is not likely to look for that information in a PvP guide. --Baconfry39 (talk) 20:35, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I understand, that makes sense. Where would you suggest to move them? The only page directly related to pure multiplayer is, well, Multiplayer. I don't think the infocards would fit there, though. --Rye Greenwood (talk) 14:54, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * There's the "Other" section in this page. We could make a subsection called "Multiplayer-specific" there, and move them there. I don't think there's anything else that we can do, unless we make a page dedicated to MP builds (in which i'm fine to do, if there are many more of them, 4 of them doesn't justify a new page). -- Murrayzero (talk) 15:06, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I created a Multiplayer section (which could also be named Multiplayer PvE), and included the Tank and Healer classes.
 * I also re-added the Fun section. Although one may argue that Link is not a class setup, it is a fun weapon/armor setup. As I stated in A Note to Editors above, the guide is aimed at both serious players and players who may want to have some fun (without dying too quickly). – Ferretwings (talk ) 19:45, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

moon lord fight
I think you should add pre moon lord section. It will help players to prepare for the last boss fight (weapons, armors, accessories...). Also, maybe hallowed gear should be in the list somewhere.
 * Tips for fighting the Moon Lord can be found on Guide:Moon Lord strategies. They definitely do not belong here. Hallowed gear is not mentioned because it is usually acquired after defeating the first Mechanical Boss, but is outclassed by Chlorophyte gear, which becomes available as soon as all three Mechanical Bosses are defeated. Since the page only differentiates between "Pre-Mechanical Bosses" and "Pre-Plantera", there is no space for such a limited timespan. --Rye Greenwood (talk) 17:08, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Hooks
Just dropping a suggestion here: Maybe we should add grappling hooks to the page. Tell me what you think. I think maybe we should add them to mixed items where all the accessories and buffs are. Proline3366 (talk) 17:18, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of having hooks here, but i feel that they're not useful for the purposes of this page. They're tools that can last for full game, unlike weapons, which become outdated when you make progress. -- Murrayzero (talk) 17:28, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Frost Armor in Pre-Mechanical Bosses
Previously I believed the Frost Armor was available in the Pre-Mechanical Bosses section. Why was it removed? Is the set simply considered to be not worth grinding for anymore? I can't edit the page so I can't add it in myself.


 * Frost armor is good, but only on crowds. Frostburn doesn't have a large dps increase compared to other armors (except on mobile, of course), which makes it lack against bosses. I might readd it, it should be useful for Pirate invasion and Tier 2 OoA. -- Murrayzero (talk) 15:03, 17 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi, I was the editor who removed it from the list. Frost armor seems to be very popular in the community, so it's easy to be confused as to why it is not mentioned anymore. There are multiple reasons for it:
 * - Low Stat bonuses: Despite the popular belief, the stats are not better than Adamantite armor. For both melee and ranged, they are only very slightly better than Palladium armor (As Ranged it's very small, only 2% more damage but 1% less crit, for melee it's better at 1% more damage and 9% more crit, but 2% less melee speed). This problem is shared with Mythril armor, which is already considered to be very underwhelming in comparison to the others. The only advantage it has over all Pre-Mech armors is the increased defense for a Ranger, but that's not saying much when you consider.....
 * - The Bad Set Bonus: The Frostburn, to put it simply, is bad. Dealing 8 damage over time to enemies may sound good but... that's 2% more DPS at best. Compared to Rapid Healing(Palladium), Shadow Dodge(Titanium), Adamantite's high stat bonuses or Orichalcum's petals, there's no comparison. As said above it might sound useful for Crowd control.... but the only time you will really need to fully focus on that is Old One's Army, and not only are Orichalcum's petals better at that role, you also have the much better Hallowed and Chlorophyte(If doing it pre Plantera) armors available.
 * - Mixed weapons: There's no real reason to mix Ranged and Melee weapons in a game like this. Forbidden armor gives Summoners the ability to attack alongside their minions, but a Melee player doesn't get any real benefit from Ranged weapons and viceversa.
 * So in short, Frost armor was removed due to being very outclassed stat wise by other armors, having one of the worst set bonuses in the game and because of how situational its two niches (Higher defense and mixing weapons) are. Bame66 (talk) 17:22, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Delete or move Fun section
As someone pointed this out, the fun section is not useful for purposes of helping players, but only to cosplay. While i do agree that they don't belong in this page, i feel that they can be moved. But at the same time, i feel to delete them outright because it can potentially clutter the target page, which is Guide:Ideas. I'd like to hear opinions on this matter. -- Murrayzero (talk) 10:53, 18 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I support their removal; to be honest i don't even know why they were added in the first place. I've already heard that this was just for players looking to have some fun.... but do you seriously get that bored that you start cosplaying as Mario or Link in a game like this?
 * I don't even think these setups belong in Guide:Ideas or any other page; if someone beat the game already and has no idea what to do next, you'd recommend them to build something, collect items, or try out one of many challenges, right? Would you really link them to this section of the page and expect them to take you seriously?
 * The entire point of this guide was to help players who want to know what items they should get next, I doubt people who frequent this page even look at the "Fun" section.
 * So if someone wants to keep the "Fun" setups I'd want to know if they think they are useful for a new player (You know, the people all guides are aimed for), or how many times they actually used them when they got bored. Bame66 (talk) 12:12, 18 April 2019 (UTC)


 * This guide isn't only for new players. We do have some guides aimed at the new player, however most assume the player already has some understanding of the game.
 * I've used the fun setups when I just wanted to goof around, and I'm guessing others have as well, or the setups wouldn't have been created. Sometimes when I play the game I don't have a real objective, and just want to pass some time - like when I visit an online multiplayer server. This page seems the most logical spot for them. If we had a couple more, we could move them to a cosplay page, and provide a link in a See also section (if we do move them, a See also would be quite helpful).
 * I don't have any strong objections to moving them... I just thought this was the best place for them. – Ferretwings (talk ) 13:11, 18 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I agree that the setups do not belong here. As I have outlined in the "About the subclasses" thread above, they simply fail to be justified by this page's purpose:
 * 1. A "class" is considered a set of weapons, armor, accessories, and buffs, characterized solely by damage type. Hence, there are currently five classes: melee, ranged, magic, summoning, and throwing. 2. While the purpose of the Guide:Class setups may have shifted throughout the history of the page, it has been roughly the following for four years:
 * Provide a comprehensive set of class recommendations for all stages of the game in order to help players maximize damage output and survivability. [...]
 * I strongly support moving all three setups of the Fun section to Guide:Ideas, leaving a "See also" link here, as Ferretwings suggested.
 * I also want to refer to the arguments Baconfry39 brought up in the "A Note to Editors" thread, all of which I absolutely agree with. --Rye Greenwood (talk) 14:48, 19 April 2019 (UTC)


 * It appears the consensus is to move the fun setups to Guide:Ideas. I can handle it later today. Thanks everybody for your input :) – Ferretwings (talk ) 15:39, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm okay to move them there, as long as it looks nice. What i'm concerned is how they are structured: it would make the page unneccesairly long, requiring too much scrolling. As someone who has the habit to always scroll down, this can be annoying. -- Murrayzero (talk) 15:44, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 * We could give the section an opening paragraph, and then collapse the setups. Or give them their own page. – Ferretwings (talk ) 16:03, 19 April 2019 (UTC)