User talk:Equazcion

Creating categories
When creating new categories, please remember to tie them into the Category tree. Thanks! -- Wynthyst  talk  17:04, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Got it, will do. Thanks for letting me know.  Equazcion ( talk ) 17:06, 10 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Since you've been on a categorizing spree ;'] do you think there should be Comfort Item and Flat Surface Item categories for the NPC housing requirements? futRtrubL 05:04, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I categorized decorative and storage items cause I think it'll be useful for people to have a catalog of the items that only have visual appeal and items used for storage. I'm not sure if having a catalog of the items you're referring to would come into quite as much practical use, but I guess it does make sense from an obsessive-compulsive standpoint :)  Equazcion ( talk ) 09:53, 11 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Moving
So, you're gonna get the same talk as Excavator: "Rather than copy pasting info to change the name of the page, you should use the move function instead as it retains the appropriate edit history. Thanks!" --JonTheMon 20:08, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I would have, but apparently the requirements for moving a page over a redirect aren't met here (redirect created manually or a previous move already occurred). I didn't think you guys would be sticklers for maintaining history here but that's fine. Could you perform a move and history merge then? I'm not an admin so I can't do it.  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:14, 11 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, at this point, i think you should hash it out what wording is correct (get consensus) before we move it again. --JonTheMon 20:16, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Consensus huh... you move from Wikipedia to a gaming site and you think that'll let you escape it, but nooooooo. I think I'll just wait for someone else to care enough to start that up. Thanks.  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:19, 11 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Sometimes consensus is being the only person who cares enough to discuss it. --JonTheMon 20:25, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * More often it's being pretty sure you're the only one who cares, til you start a discussion and everyone suddenly forms an opinion simply because they can. Call me jaded :)  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:28, 11 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Biome Temps
For the record, that looks hideous: http://wiki.terrariaonline.com/The_Underworld are you sure the mob & drop data is necessary that high up the page? Xeroproject 20:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm working on the item link templates so we can adjust the size of the graphics included there using an additional parameter. Should be ready soon, and won't look quite as hideous :) stay tuned.  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:27, 12 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah ha! Yes that is what I was just looking into myself.  The images are great to have, but badly need re-sizing.  I'm unfortunately too new to wiki editing but I've been researching ways to do it.  It works for the Ocean page, but the ones like the Underworld with a large amount of unique mobs & items are just cluttered currently, especially on 1280x1024 res, most likely not as bad on widescreen.  I'd love to see how you can resize when you figure that out.  Xeroproject 20:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Even if you fix the images, that still too much for the infobox. It needs to be separate further down the page. --JonTheMon 20:36, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Reserve judgement til you can see the result? Also Biome pages are different from others, as the objects encountered there are really the most pertinent info.  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:38, 12 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * My original idea was to include the images, edit down the images of the "long" mobs, like EoW, Bone Serpent, etc to just show the head, however in some cases this requires editing existing files that are already linked on several pages, unless there's some way to specify in the template which file to use? Then its simple.  I was wrestling with those issues for the last few days when I was on, but didn't really come to a conclusion that wasn't going to require massive mob file standardization as a jumping off point. Xeroproject 20:41, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Jon got there first it seems -- my head wasn't on straight, I kept forgetting the # in the IF statements, couldnt figure out why it wouldnt work :) Result looks good at Ocean, no? Equazcion ( talk ) 20:48, 12 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * It's ok for now, but if "Unique Treasures" gets added, then it's too wide. That's why I want it in a separate section where width is less of an issue. --JonTheMon 20:51, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say Unique Treasures is important information, if it applies to the Biome, I know its information I personally have looked up before I started editing. I agree that Oceans looks good, but I think consistent formatting is more important.  I see how you did the Bone Serpent on the Underworld page, apparently when I did this: http://wiki.terrariaonline.com/index.php?title=The_Underworld&action=edit&oldid=34691 it wasn't correct.  Last question is, do you want the Biome information at the very bottom, with only Version History below?  Because the organization of the Tips, Notes, Version History, etc is kinda all of the place as well.  Xeroproject 21:19, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm still working on this. I think the Biome infobox should use tables rather than line breaks, as the text wrapping (or lack thereof) is what's causing most of the width problems now. If the width problems can be solved hopefully the float=right will be more feasible.  Equazcion ( talk ) 21:23, 12 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Tables can still have width issues. And I think the biome info should be the second thing on the page, under the general description. --JonTheMon 21:27, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * In the meantime I'll continue to work to get the rest of the pages in a template, with working pictures, at least then the positioning and such can be adjusted rather easily.

Templates
Please stop replacing text with box templates. It makes the pages look ridiculous and does not convey the information very clearly.

Documentation should be done first and foremost with text, only using images to enhance that text, not as a replacement for it. Thanks for your continued efforts, but please discuss this stuff more prior to implementing it. Thanks! -- Wynthyst  talk  01:02, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure what you're talking about. What text did I replace with box templates?  Equazcion ( talk ) 01:03, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * My error, I'm just really unhappy with the whole "Biome" template thing. That replaced very easy to edit and easy to follow text and inserted an ugly table, but it wasn't you that started it. Sorry. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  01:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. Change can be rough but if people like it... you might eventually too. There are always some places on a wiki that develop complex code, but they're usually portal-type spaces that don't need to receive heavy edit traffic from average users, and visual appeal is a bit higher priority that usual. Everyone can still edit the "catalog data", while the window dressing so to speak is what they might see first, as in the environment pages. If you can see what I'm getting at. Give it a chance, is all I'm saying, and try not to get stuck on how it used to be :) It's a wiki and will continue to evolve.  Equazcion ( talk ) 01:12, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * I do have to warn you about your flood in recent changes making mini tweaks to your templates. I realize that working on templates is slightly different from editing regular articles but is a bit much.... I think you would agree? And just for the record, I'm against complex code on a wiki regardless of the page it's on, Wikis need to be user friendly, and multi layer templates are NOT user friendly in most cases. I'm just really disliking replacing all the clear, and easy to edit text with big ugly tables that in a lot of aspects don't do nearly as good a job conveying the information as text would. The addition of all the icons is again, a problem as it makes the whole thing look and feel cluttered.  Your idea of removing the text link completely is out of the question btw... the text link is required.-- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]]  talk  01:17, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sir yes sir. But if you don't mind I'd like to have a more public discussion to gauge community opinion. Also I'm not sure what that link has to do with me. Did you post the right one? As far as flooding recent changes, you can filter out the template traffic pretty easily when viewing that.  Equazcion ( talk ) 01:24, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * PS. I only removed the text links from items in the "from" column, which are already present with labels elsewhere in the box and need to be shown repeatedly. It's a redundant waste to list them repeatedly for each item that can be acquired from them ("Chest, Chest, Chest, Chest, Chest.....") The icons alone, for that particular purpose, seems better. To me anyway. Equazcion ( talk ) 01:41, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, a few points. First, hell no am I going to filter out template changes; if I miss something there shit can blow up. Second, that makes the history near-useless; i'm tempted to delete and restore only a few revisions. Third, yes links; not everyone is immediately familiar with the images, and the images aren't directly linked to a page. Fourth, I still don't like the big image+table design. This version of the Underworld is about where i'll concede; it keeps the table in a good place on the page, has ok spacing, and the code isn't that hard to understand. --JonTheMon 02:53, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Please do delete and restore all but the most recent revisions if that makes things easier for you. I'm not sure why it would though, since these pages were newly created by me and aren't in use anywhere but my test pages.
 * The images are certainly linked directly to pages, as was always true with Template:Item link. I haven't removed that functionality in my version.
 * If recent changes are really that much of a problem due to my fiddling, I can take it to my user space in the future and you can filter out userspace changes instead, which won't "blow shit up".
 * I'm not sure why everyone's getting all... this way. Been a long week? But anything else, you know where to find me.  Equazcion ( talk ) 03:16, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * It's really a couple of reasons. First, it doesn't really inspire confidence that you're making so many changes, in the template namespace at that. Second, there are variants of aesthetics, but a lot of these changes seem to go beyond that and even into functionality, which crosses a line for some. As for your points, I've already addressed that template and the note about the links. If you're taking on a new project, yes, use your userspace to get the kinks out before presenting it. But still, that's a lot of edits. --JonTheMon 03:24, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Recent changes are generally not used the way you're using them, at least not on sizeable wikis. They aren't a dependable way to keep track of things (as you can see), and telling people not to make frequent test edits so that you can continue using it this way might not be the best idea, nor is it really necessary. Number of edits shouldn't have any effect on how well-functioning the wiki is. Anything that people see, and that goes wrong, will be reverted or reported by users. Anything they don't see doesn't matter until someone sees it, and anything critical is protected.


 * When you make a publicly-editable wiki you make a community, and you don't need to keep a watchful eye on all changes yourself; You're not meant to. That's the point of a wiki, and you'll drive yourselves crazy if you try to. I'm not sure why a user frequently editing template space should in and of itself "not inspire confidence"; logic does not follow there for me. I'm sure you could care less for my advice since you've taken some sort of offense at my tampering with your template space, even though I've mainly been creating new ones, rather than editing those that exist (I would not make sweeping changes to existing interface items without discussing them). But there you have it anyway.  Equazcion ( talk ) 03:35, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes things change when you're a large wiki, but this is a smaller wiki, so things can be different. Aside from template and RC etiquette, there's still an issue of design: text size, links, image sizes, etc. I think the text could use a little bump in size (back to normal), text links are helpful and direct, and while I'm ok with the icons, having an image that creates so much white space just affects functionality, imo. --JonTheMon 03:49, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Text links should be there for the new items that are the point of the page to present, such as in the underworld's case, the Demon and Imp for example. To have the word "Chest" or even "Shadow Chest" spelled out over and over again, just because many things are found there, doesn't do much to describe the underworld to people and can (should?) receive less focus. I'm not sure which image(s) you're saying cause whitespace. Feel free to contribute your own changes to my test templates to illustrate what might make it more to you liking though.  Equazcion ( talk ) 04:01, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * As I said before, i prefer this edit over an older one due to the placement of the main image. As for text vs icons, I say always use text and use icons only for primary text in lists (so, not in the parentheses text). To be honest, I don't think that there need to be pictures (especially full-sized ones) for the imps and demons. --JonTheMon 04:10, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Since you've been referring to those I'm not sure if you saw this: User:Equazcion/sandbox2, which has much smaller images. It's a floating box so text will wrap around it rather than creating any whitespace. I do think some form of shorthand is adviseable to inform people of where items can be found, rather than displaying that information just as prominently as the items themselves -- if not as text-less icons, then maybe as abbreviation codes (that will still link to their respective pages). <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 04:21, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Just the bottom part by itself might be ok. Combining it with the top just makes for a too-large box. Using shorthand saves space, but it can be less obvious to end users; at that point smaller explanation text can be used. And if we go there, having a normal table in its own section should give enough room to not be too cramped. --JonTheMon 04:30, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The existing Underworld page has an image in the top-right to illustrate its appearance, which I think would continue ending up there even if removed, as it seems appropriate to prominently show what an environment looks like on its page. Combining the two into a box doesn't cramp things significantly more than keeping them separate. I added the Underworld's text content so you can get a better idea of the box's effect on readability. <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 04:42, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * At around 1280 wide it starts to be less obtrusive, but if you keep it around 900-1000 wide, then it sucks up half the width, and that's just not cool. --JonTheMon 04:45, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
Where was it discussed and given consensus to move the environment pages to the singular? The links on the mainpage are for the plural, and mainpage links should NEVER be redirects. Please move them back. Thanks! -- Wynthyst  talk  06:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It wasn't discussed, but they were all already in the singular aside from those two I moved. Do we really need to conduct a discussion about something so trivial as whether or not the minority should conform? It might be easier to just change the main page links. I'll move them back if you really think this is worth holding a discussion over, but I really don't think it's a controversial enough move to warrant that. <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 06:18, 16 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it needs to be discussed and agreed upon. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  15:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily saying there should be an actual discussion, but just give a fair 1 week move warning using move, in case somebody actually wants one. There is always a bit of behind the scenes administrative work involved with page moves. Moving pages with no prior warning catches the admins off guard, and tends to irritate them :D happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 13:47, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There seems to be precious little that doesn't irritate them ;) <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 14:35, 22 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the Catch
That random image was simply a copy/paste error (forgot what I had copied), if there was any doubt. Thanks for getting rid of it for me. -- TechpriestMagos 21:05, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, I figured it was just a mistake :) <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 21:10, 17 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Hello
Just wanted to correctly welcome you to the wiki. You've made quite some contributions. Keep up the good work. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 13:43, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, much appreciated :) <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 14:35, 22 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Moving pages and the meaning of Discussion
I had reverted your move of Gardening to Farming, and requested discussion. You posted for discussion on the 16th, and then decided that there were no objections on the 17th? Um... 24 hrs does not constitute discussion. Things don't happen on a wiki overnight, no matter how much you may want them to. From now on, any change you wish to make to established pages, conventions, etc, will require one week of discussion. You fail to meet that one week period you will find your editing privileges suspended. -- Wynthyst  talk  15:22, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This place was in awful shape when I got here, and if I had to wait for discussion for each uncontroversial change, it would've been a waste of time and nothing would've gotten accomplished. Certain changes are indeed referred to as "uncontroversial", which are done and can be undone if there is objection; these were quintessential examples. You moved House to Home on the sayso of a new editor with no discussion whatsoever. Your opinion of me was forged based on my prolific style, which you found threatening to your little domain, and as I firmly believe you've allowed that opinion to cloud your judgment of my actions, I really don't think you'll need to worry about my editing privileges henceforth. <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 15:33, 28 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Damnit, you're just being obtuse. "Movers and shakers" get stuff "done", but they also cause issues with the wiki norm. Sometimes things get done w/o objections, and sometimes they meet a lot of objections. And "movers and shakers" are squeaky wheels that get a lot of attention (and therefore more often objections). Now, here's a suggestion that can alleviate some of your "wait vs action" dilemma: if it's on the main page or the side bar, give it longer before doing anything. --JonTheMon 15:51, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Whether or not they meet with objection isn't the issue, since again, changes can be undone if/when they arise. Discussion is only necessary when objection is foreseen. I'll also point out in regard to Gardening/Farming, it took Wynthyst more than a week to respond to the discussion I posted; and again, noting the previous House -> Home move -- a rather prominent page moved rather hastily on very shaky grounds -- it's only my actions that prompted this move to stand on procedure. I'm not being obtuse, I'm being logical. You're being emotional, again basing this more on your opinion of me than on the merit of the actions themselves. I gave you a net improvement here, and you're chasing me away for it. Good luck. <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 16:00, 28 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * By the way, no one is trying to hate, this is a common mistake, even I do it. 16:03, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Funny thing about hate is that you don't need to try. It just comes. Regardless of your take on this, Null, I believe you're mistaken. Wynthyst and Jon would prefer it if I were not here, and they're going to get their wish. <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 16:06, 28 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * So, you're not completely getting your way, so you're gonna take your toys and go home? Honestly, working it out would be good A) for the wiki and B) for yourself as well, since conflict will likely occur most everywhere you go, in some shape or form. --JonTheMon 16:24, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, at one point I was considering nominating you for adminship, since you seemed to have a vision and a little skill to back it up. I put off that since you were new and your conflict resolution skills were unknown at that point. --JonTheMon 16:28, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * (ec) I got my way already. 99% of what I did stuck and will continue to benefit the wiki for a good long time. You're welcome. You've chosen to jump down my throat in the few places you could find, which is a telltale sign that it's time to go. I'm leaving because now you (the powers that be) seek to make it more difficult for me in the future. Rest assured I'm used to conflict resolution and was offered adminship on Wikipedia 5 times based on it. I turned it down there each time and would turn it down here too, as nothing about it interests me. This wiki is not for me though, adminship or not, due to the unprofessional management. Maybe I'll be back when amateur hour is up and you all get your priorities straight. <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 16:34, 28 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * As for "This place was in awful shape" before you showed up, I seriously beg to differ. I don't see that your contributions have been that stellar, or that you seriously are concerned with making it so. As for 99% of what you did sticking.. don't temp me. As for my delay in responding... well, that is a perfect example of why discussion takes more than 24 hrs to be resolved, there are those in the community that aren't here 24/7, that don't check in on every little edit that everyone is making. As for being threatened by you? I can only say thanks for the good laugh. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  05:13, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Again the point (regarding discussion time) was that if I had waited the week, the move would've still happened before you responded. Anyway, you'll excuse me if I don't respect your particular degree of objectivity regarding most of that, of course, since we've already established that I believe it to be clouded by pettiness. As for "Don't tempt me", the mere fact that you uttered these words is a perfect example of why you don't belong in your position. There are two kinds of administrators (in the world, wiki or otherwise), and you're not the kind who understands what the position's actual purpose is. On Wikipedia -- and please excuse the frequent comparisons, but it's a good parallel as they've been through all of this in the past -- they now have a rigorous system for keeping such people away, but you seem to have been through no such ringer. I hope you continue to derive enjoyment and esteem from your position, for as long as you can make that last. <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 06:21, 29 Aug 2011 (UTC)