Guide talk:Hardcore master mode for the worthy

Item links
can someone please add some links to the items please. Makingmadness9284 (talk) 15:27, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Development?
I wanted to put this to discussion and get some input or consensus. Anyone have any ideas on how to proceed with this page? Guide:Hardcore Master Mode is relatively new and from what I can tell, many tips here are similar to tips on the existing guide (mine for ores, early hellevator, loot cabins...) I'm well aware that the for the worthy seed brings about many changes, but if this guide doesn't focus on those, it seems that it'll end up being redundant. I wanted to get input from more people so we can find a better way to go ahead? --2057clones (talk) 15:48, 15 December 2020 (UTC)


 * this is honestly the first page i have made and i think that we should be adding more features and stuff relating to for the worthy, but i have not played it before so the only info i have is from the wiki and yt. but yes right now at the stage that i have gotten to does not have many for the worthy changes.


 * I, 01156L, am, in fact, the creator of Guide:Hardcore Master Mode, and I honestly think this page should be deleted. The tips are indeed not related to for the worthy, and this page does not meet the quality standards of a guide or a wiki page at all. It is sloppy, hard to read, and has not had much work put into it. I may be being harsh about this, but deleting it would be the right desision. The recent content on Guide:Hardcore Master Mode is indeed in desperate need of an editor, but the heading says this guide has been revised partially- that is false. I also think that "Hardcore master mode for the worthy" is oddly specific, and simply "Guide:For The Worthy" might be more useful. 011365L (talk) 17:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I do agree that this guide is a bit too specific and is underworked. Now, to put things in perspective, many guides appear to be "low-effort" and might be hard to read, but that's just the nature of guides. Honestly, I think it should be deleted as well, and a guide covering FTW or even other secret seeds as well would be... interesting. Still though, we have to put this to discussion before we can reach a consensus... Guide:Sports didn't seem to belong either and where is it? Right here (although it's gone ignored amongst editors.) --2057clones (talk) 18:11, 15 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree, and though much content does seem a bit useless and covered by my page, we need the opinion of more people. Also, what you said about the nature of guides is true, but this one is incredibly low quality. Even capitalization is lacking. Whoever created this guide does not have a good idea of how it works, as there is no guide page at the bottom and they didn't add their signature above. 011365L (talk) 18:22, 15 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree as well. These guides are getting way too redundant to require separate pages. Hardcore, Hardcore Expert, Hardcore Mastermode, Hardcore Mastermode FTW aren't really that different. The pages are going to be like 95% the same strategies. We should just have a single hardcore page with sections on the bottom for strategy differences in Hardcore Expert, Hardcore Mastermode and Hardcore Mastermode FTW. --107.2.104.203 15:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


 * These are all good points. Your last suggestion sounds like a sensible solution to me; I've added a on both Guide:Hardcore master mode for the worthy and Guide:Hardcore Master Mode, maybe we'll get some more input this way. --Rye Greenwood (talk) 18:30, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Having seen the merge notice, I think that would be a sensible solution as well, but there is a problem. HCMM (Hardcore Master) was designed as a complete guide, so it is practically a walkthrough, while Guide:Hardcore is a basic "first steps" explanation and then some tips for progression. The two guides would blend weirdly, and besides, this could result in a bloated page. Is there information here that we should trim down? A solution that I'm overlooking? Just some more information to be said, explaining how best the merge would work? I'm not against the merge, I just thought there might be some hiccups, so to speak. 2057clones (talk) 20:50, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Hmm, that's right. Well, in my opinion, most of the HCMM walkthrough does not differ substantially from the Guide:Walkthrough. The basic order in terms of biome exploration and boss fights is obviously the same, and many general notes are essentially just copied (e.g. staying indoors/underground at night, making boss arenas for mobility, using honey/Campfire/Heart Lantern/buffs during boss fights, being careful early Hardmode, etc.). There is some valuable information in there, though (like collecting blocks early, making sure to always have a means of recall available, or avoiding Nymphs at all costs), and I feel like those parts, the things that are actually notable about the particular Hardcore/Master Mode setup, are what should remain. After all, that's what the guide is about – playing a Hardcore character on Master Mode. Now while there are some things to tell about this setup, it's not like it requires a completely different game walkthrough. I believe a list of those distinctly HCMM-related notes (ordered by game progression, yes, why not) is much better than another attempt at an entire walkthrough. Guide:Walkthrough exists pretty much since the foundation of the wiki, and therefore had a lot of time to be refined to the point it is now at. It is unnecessary (and honestly, futile) to try and recreate that just to be able to throw in an HCMM-related thing here and there. --Rye Greenwood (talk) 22:30, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Good points. I hadn't noticed the similarities too much, but that's a good idea, and would allow for incorporating other variations (FTW, etc etc...) as well. 2057clones (talk) 22:33, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Yeah, exactly. I like how Guide:Hardcore is set up – a list of useful tips –; although it's in dire need of revision, it's drifting into the walkthrough direction already (one random bullet point I was just looking at: "When it is day again, keep walking until you find a cave to explore. You should have torches from killing Slimes the previous day. Explore these caves for minerals and chests." Nothing exclusive to Hardcore in that!). So for each thing pointed out there, I'd ask myself whether I wouldn't tell that to a Soft- or Mediumcore player, but to a Hardcore player only. The same would go for Hardcore/Master Mode and Hardcore/Master Mode/For the worthy and so on. For some things, it might also help to just elaborate more why they are particularly notable for Hardcore/... players. Then depending on the amount of content, it might be necessary to have separate sections, I don't know; but I can see a blend working well, too (e.g. "Nymphs should be avoided at all costs during early spelunking. In FTW, the player should immediately recall once one shows up on the Lifeform Analyzer", or something like that). --Rye Greenwood (talk) 22:59, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Oh, and one more thing that just came to mind: We can pretty much safely assume that anyone who attempts to play Hardcore or one of the even more difficult variations has played through the game in normal mode at least once. If I'm reading a guide on Hardcore, then I want to know in what ways it is different from Softcore and what things I have to consider now that I wouldn't bother thinking about before. I know how a playthrough works, I've made my experiences, I don't want to be told what I know already. Does that make sense? --Rye Greenwood (talk) 23:00, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


 * look I made this page, i am honestly very new to making pages, making wiki pages, doing stuff like this, and this is actually the very first page i have ever made so there is going to be some problems, and honestly i am not trying to make this page look like hardcore master mode and there will be some diffrences, ie the bosses and enemies but i have only seen ftw on youtube and this wiki so i still am new to ftw and making pages, but I think that we can make this page work we just need to add the ftw changes which at the stage of the guide there are not that many diffrences from ftw. And i believe that the page of hardcore master mode and this page should not be merged with hardcore because all hardcore does is make it where if you die you die forever it does not make the enemies stronger or have more health does not add something new to the bosses, all it does is make you die forever. Makingmadness9284 (talk) 12:52, 17 December 2020 (UTC)


 * One of my previous points: Hardcore Master Mode FTW is Incredibly specific, and again, guide:for the worthy will be more useful. Many of the points of playing on an extreme difficulty level also applies to hardcore, and there's not much of a difference in playing FTW or master mode. A smaller guide that covers the little points in gameplay in which FTW comes into impact will be much, MUCH more useful. 011365L (talk) 13:57, 17 December 2020 (UTC)