Board Thread:Administrator's Noticeboard/@comment-7697305-20140527012127/@comment-7697305-20140530223759

'''Here's a fun game; try figuring out how much of this post was written at 4AM and how much was written at 4PM. Even I don't remember anymore!''' TerrariamcSwaggins wrote:
 * First, the filter is to be used to block...
 * I believe that based on what we're using the filter for...

Here's how I believe the filter would be a benefit to the chatting community:


 * First, it would block out the harsh profane language...


 * It would get rid of some homophobic slur...


 * It would get rid of some sexist slur...


 * It would get rid of some racial slur...


 * I honestly see no good reason for why it should be not installed. I mean, here's the reasons that have been leveled against it.
 * Trolls would still go around the filter.
 * Yes, and we will deal with them the same way we'd deal with a troll without...
 * Users will get bothered with the filter.
 * As of now, the filter is planned on being used to block the more harsh...
 * The Chat is already moderated enough.
 * Yep, the chat is quite moderated as it is, but why not have a filter in place...
 * (It would provide a cleaner, more controlled chat room for users of all ages...)
 * The script might be dangerous or hard to install.
 * It's not hard to install as I've done stuff similar to this myself...
 * See? None of the arguments really provide reasons why the filter is necessarily bad. So if it's not bad, then why not install it if it would do the chat good.
 * I can certainly get behind those last three points; those words are highly uncommon in informal conversation, and are pretty much universally considered offensive. The "extremely harsh language" point, however...I feel like this may just be a difference of opinions, but, using the word you gave as an example, it just seems common enough (I even saw it thrown about a bit in chat a few days ago while you and Silver were AFK) in innocent contexts that it shouldn't be censored.
 * Currently, the only guidelines chat has are this criteria for chat bans and part of this default help page. Otherwise, what chat will be like is heavily dependent on who is moderating it at the time. As such, I believe that this second point is just a difference in moderation styles. I personally don't take issue with chat moderators having their own thresholds for what amount of profanity is considered "excessive" (and I trust their judgement), but I don't think installing hard enforcement for one particular style over the others makes all that much sense.

Regarding the next four points about different types of profane language:
 * Harsh language &mdash; See above; depends on what you mean by "harsh".
 * Homophobic slurs &mdash; I agree.
 * Sexism &mdash; Also agree.
 * Racism &mdash; Agree.

*Just an observation here: most of these arguments were presented a bit simplistically, and all arguments presented by the other side weren't actually addressed here. This combined with the (unnecessary, in my opinion) implication that they weren't "good reasons" just strike me as a bit condescending. **If anyone wants me to, I'll elaborate on this.
 * Regarding your rebuttals to the counterpoints* presented in this thread:
 * Trolls will be able to get around the filter &mdash; That was part of the argument from the third main bullet point from my first post about the subject, but that argument was further refined in the first subpoint under the first bullet point here (man that sentence was word salad; sorry about that) . If more elaboration/a different approach is required:
 * You said it quite well here; these trolls would be dealt with in much the same same way as they would be dealt with without the filter. If their goal was to make people mad/provoke a reaction from people/otherwise disrupt the chat, and they can succeed at this in spite of the filter (I believe that they can), then the filter has actually done very little to help with the problem. It will have blocked their initial attempts at harsh language, but I've said before that I don't think that matters.
 * Users would be bothered by the filter &mdash; The thing here is (as I've mentioned) there is already precedent on this wiki for users getting upset over far less stringent censorship in chat. I see no reason to not expect a repeat performance given the relative strictness of this filter. (Not to mention reactions to similar situations in the greater Terraria community (which this community often has similarities with, obviously) – see the discussion starting at this post on Terraria Online).
 * The chat is already moderated enough &mdash; I actually believe this point works well as-is. I sorta answered the additional counterpoint provided here in my second point in this message, but to elaborate: "keeping chat clean" is not necessarily the goal of every chat moderator, nor does it need to be. It's a worthy goal, and one that I certainly don't disagree with, but it is still set individually. This will likely change (or at least be proposed to change) eventually, but chat moderators currently have a lot of freedom in determining how they want to go about moderating chat.
 * The script will be difficult to install &mdash; I'm not gonna touch on this point too much**, but I will just say that installing additional chat JS or CSS is more difficult than installing other customizations. This isn't too big a deal (I know how to do it if this filter is approved, at any rate!), but it is still something to think about.
 * This last part looks like it was intended as a conclusion, but it does bring up another thing I'd like to address: something not being bad does not necessarily mean that it will be good. Just as it is possible for chat to be not moderated enough, I believe that it is possible for chat to be overmoderated.

Freenight wrote: Well, I can see why some feel implementing the script to be an unnecessary, and possibly a bad move. Nevertheless, I think having a filter that will block the extreme words will be rather beneficial to the chat, and the wiki itself. Chat mods aren't always in the chat room...

This doesn't have anything to do with parenting or children being in the chat. Frankly, even an adult(nearly 25) like myself doesn't feel like seeing people coming in cursing...

As for choosing what you read/see if someone starts cussing, not sure how to respond to that exactly but we could see this filter as a baseline to our way of conduct here...
 * My response to this is similar to the last point in my first major post in this thread: I believe that, if there is a particular time when there are consistently people in chat and there aren't any chat moderators, then the ideal solution is for more trusted users who are active at that time to be given chatmod rights.
 * I understand what you are saying, but I believe that this reasoning could be applied to any language (to a greater or lesser extent) with a particular intent behind it. It is true that keeping the chat friendly is desirable, but I believe that chatmods do a better job of this (by warning/kicking/banning problematic users) than an automated filter could.
 * I believe I've covered this with my talk about the roles of chatmods earlier in this message. I will say that I think a better way of establishing a baseline of what is(n't) acceptable in the chat room would be to propose some new chat guidelines. I intend to do so eventually, but policy proposing is open to anyone.

Despite all of this, I can see the value in using this filter to block the absolute worst language (ie. the aforementioned sexist, racist, and homophobic language), as these words are pretty much universally considered unacceptable, and could even be triggers for some people. My problem would have been with a filter which attempts to block all profane language, for reasons which I have thoroughly discussed already.