User talk:Sannse

Chat
Absolutely. whats your skype?HeroGaming 22:34, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

or is their a better way of chatting i dont want to bog you down with alot of invites.HeroGaming 22:35, January 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi, Skype is fine (sannsec) or I'm on Community Central chat at the moment -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog)  00:21, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Contact
Confirmed.HeroGaming 00:53, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Response.
I am working very hard to improve video submissions.
 * On the topic of gracey and math, if justice cannot be done I would rather withdraw from the wiki and notify the public. My username on youtube is who I am. I fight for whats right and that is why I can't be bought off. If they want the wiki and you want them to be on the wiki then I would rather give up the wiki and tell the public. I am not a supporter or backer of injustice. These men are bad guys. They have greed in their hearts and their only goal is power. I love the wiki and I want it to be a peaceful place with honest people. I Can't support a wiki which supports them. It has been one of my biggest projects and a labor of love. If they want to corrupt it so bad and are permited back on the wiki then I would rather publicly leave. Its not a source of income for me or money. It's something I have grown fond of. I am not the best editor but I love the wiki. My heart hurts from this situation. I may come off synical or condesending but its because I don't do well with liars. Its just who I am. This will be my stance no matter the decission. The community has voted it should be respected. If its not then my heart is no longer with this wiki. Just because someone hides there actions in the shadows does not mean they should be allowed to prevail. My heart is set though. It was from the moment I realised what they were trying to do. I don't compromise with the shadows. As childish as I might sound I stand only in the light. Regardless of the outcome. Again my heart hurts from the situation and I wish regardless of your decission for it to made as soon as possible so the wiki can get past this.--HeroGaming 03:06, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

In relation to the Wiki Mediation Incident
Thanks for all your help with this, Sannse. It's good to have both an outside opinion, and the intervention of the staff in this difficult matter. As Math said, we'll look to you for guidance in future, regarding the B-crats, wiki health, administrative groups, and all other matters pertaining to the management of my favorite wiki. Thanks again. :) 04:11, February 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Definitely all subjects to get back to :) I'll be looking in on Monday to see how we can move forward -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  19:58, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

HERO
Hey sannse. I have accepted the decision and would like to have the community make the decision about video sooner than later. I can handel it. I love the wiki and support it but I just won't be taking my ruthless business tactics with me anymore as far as growing the wiki. We will be number 2 without them though. I see now that I need a new set of skills called people skills.HeroGaming 04:21, February 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm hoping we can get restarted on Monday or Tuesday. I'm doing some reading to get caught up again today, and will call in tomorrow -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  19:59, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Gracey91
Apparently you blocked Gracey91, could you please unblock him. He has done amazing things for the wiki and it is unfair for him to be blocked. He has helped me on my wiki alot so he would not do anything bad. New Captain (talk • contribs • count) 09:18, February 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Gracey was banned because of an incident elsewhere on Wikia. He will be able to return in a few days.  -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  20:04, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

RE: Next Steps
I posted a reply on my talk page here. Mathmagician ( talk ♥ blog ) 07:29, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

Wikia's stance
Hey Sannse I do feel that wikia favors the editors. That stance was gained because of the discussion that was only open to editors of the wiki. This is where it came from specifically. It is true that they weren't given a say in the final matter and were asked to not comment. The thread only asked for editors and said that those with more edits opinion would be weighted. This is in clear favor of editors.

You said "One aspect of this is that I would like to hear from editing users of this wiki (and, in particular and Gracy, HeroGaming and Mathmagician). I would say that the reading/viewing users (in particular those who follow HeroGaming on YouTube) have had their say, let's hear from the editors now" which I thought was unfair we did a vote but none really got to give out thoughtful comments about the reasons they use the wiki or where they come from. Or talk about me donating money to run contest for the wiki prior to ever making a cent off of my youtube channel. A vote from a livestream which was less that 5% of the actual audience wasn't in my opinion a fair voice to there opinions. You are staff and you decided how to run the operation so I followed your lead.

The admin left in charge wants to post videos from users who almost every single video link in the video the terrariaonline wiki. For me that is Wikia not defending there business model. Also he specifically asked for those 2. Which if I had to say 2 youtubers who support the other wiki like I support this wiki those 2 youtubers would be the top of the list.

The saddest thing in all of this is I am working with the game developers on upcomming features and a new mod but after all of this it's almost not even worth going any further into the game. The people who support another wiki are in power and the staff doesn't give a voice to the audience in the final matter. It can be said there vote was there voice but it is not. It is a yes or a no not any real thoughts or discussion.

you said (Similarly, I said (and I'll quote in full for clarity) "readers are a part of this community, and should be heard. But editors are also a key group, and are the group responsible for the day to day running, organization, and maintenance of this wiki.") When you use the word but after something it negates what you said, it is like saying this is true although it doesn't matter because. Wikia has made there stance on viewer vs editor. It's not one that I agree with but it's not my chocie to make. I am more than sad about this because the viewers are the editors they just haven't stepped up yet. All ediotrs where first viewers.

I will participate in the discussion although I feel my words will not be heard in a crowd of people who support the other wiki and give viewers second class citizenship. The wiki is on the road to the end. The promotion of other wikis and the viewers having no say. We lost are rank because of this situation and will continue to fall because of the decisions made over the past week. I am just gonna be around watching something I love get dismantled. I am using this to teach myself a lesson. I am trying to increase my writing skills and learn to be more political in situations. Wikia owns this wiki I now know that and understand what that means.HeroGaming 00:41, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Mathmagician ( talk ♥ blog ) 02:40, February 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * I read this and left a reply of my own on Hero's talk page.
 * I think what needed to be said here has been said :) I disagree with your interpretations, but have already stated that and don't think repetition will make a difference.
 * I will say that I do not believe that this dispute has had any effect on Google rankings. They simply don't work that way.  I haven't been watching the ranking and don't know when they changed or why - but I do know enough to be absolutely certain that this argument is not the cause.  But for now, let's focus on the places we do agree.  We need to hear from both viewers and editors in the coming discussions.  Viewers will be important in helping us understand what they want to see, and because they are potential future editors.  Editors are important as content creators, maintainers, and organizers of the site.  From both groups, full discussion will be more useful than "me too" (although that can also have value).  I believe this community can find a way to get the balance right and make the right decisions. -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  22:00, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Discussions
Alright, I think I'm all caught up on who said what on who's talk page. For my part, I'm ready for the video + admin discussions to begin. Also, thanks for letting us know about the logo thing =) Mathmagician ( talk ♥ blog ) 23:30, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Terraria wiki admin discussions.
Hello. Sorry to bother you but do you have a rough time estimation when the dissusions will start? Just wondering beacuse I plan to be there to add my thoughts.

Thanks!

Dak47922 talk contrib count 00:00, February 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've just unblocked Gracey, and have posted the first one. We'll be talking be over the next couple of days though (and I'll drop in to check as much as I can) so lots of time to participate :) -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 00:39, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * And the second is up. That's Video_Policy_Discussion and Administration Discussion - please spread the word! -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  01:08, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Page move
Hey Sannse i noticed the 2 pages about the policy discussions were made on content pages, can i move them to the forum so they can easily be found and they aren't in the content namespace? Thanks Gracey91 (talk • contribs • count) 07:38, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Mathmagician ( talk ♥ blog ) 15:20, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Gracey, the discussions are in the main namespace as I suggested, because it allows for both forum-type discussion (the page itself) + commenting (from people who aren't comfortable with the forum format) all in the same place. Also, it's a bit easier for most people here to find compared to if it were a forum post. When the discussions are over, we'll get them out of the main namespace--for now, I think they need to be there. Though site maintenance must continue, sorting things out on the wiki takes precedence at the moment, so time and effort must be devoted to that end before anything else.

Video Discussion Help
Sannse, could we please get your clarification regarding the direction of the video policy discussion? (In particular, I'm talking about the recent developments regarding Yrimir which begin at Video_Policy_Discussion and also many things said in the comments.)
 * I do not approve of Hero trying to present a "solution" mentioned in the comments. It is not any person's place to do so, and the discussion is merely a rough draft--it is not the time or place to speak of solutions. I believe that he needs to respond to things other people have said and present more ideas in the course of the discussion, rather than pull away from it and do his own thing.
 * While I agree with Hero that 1 youtuber is not the entire purpose of the discussion, I do not feel that Hero should be moving the discussion away from this point at this time. I would like to hear from more people on the topic of Yrimir. I am fairly confident that if the inclusion of Yrimir's videos on this wiki is addressed fairly in the discussion, most people will support having him here.
 * Hero made a good point that it might make more sense to form the policy first and then talk about which youtubers are acceptable under the policy--but the fact of the matter is that as a youtuber Hero himself is given preferential treatment since his videos are implicitly acceptable under whatever the policy may be (we're not going to take down all of Hero's videos--at least, I hope not, because that's an extreme measure and many of them are already good). In fairness and due order, we must talk about individual youtubers as part of the video policy discussion.
 * Happypal is a bureaucrat of wiki.terrariaonline.com. However, he is also a Wikia user, made some fair points in the Wiki Mediation forum, has contributed to this community in the past, and speaks for a number of people who have left this community in the past. Should he not be included in the discussion simply because he's also a member of another wiki and because Hero doesn't trust him? As long as he says reasonable things--and I think he mostly does--I see no reason why he can't contribute to the discussion. He's not controlling the discussion, playing a leading role in it, or otherwise attempting to do so. In fact, he only first entered the video policy discussion when I quoted him as part of something I was saying. What's your stance on this?

Thanks, Mathmagician ( talk ♥ blog ) 15:19, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi both. Please forgive me, as I have stated on my page, it was not my intention to participate/contribute, and I do not want to be a part of the conversation. I maintain that it is important for this community to find out what is best for its wiki on its own. However, I do enjoy being on this wiki, reading the articles, viewing the discussions, so sometimes I see some things that make me want to react on as a 3rd party "drive-by editor". Please see my comments as nothing more than that of a random editor, and put no more weight behind them than the words they carry. happypal (talk &bull; contribs) 16:14, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Helloooow Sannse
I just saw this in the feed and I thought I would chime in. I know we are supposed to be having the conversations on the thread post. I'm sorry! I just felt like addressing Math's concerns. He has shown to be reasonable and that is a trait I am working to pick up so I wish to discuss things instead of argueing in the future. Since I saw him going to you for advice I thought maybe you can give us both some direction? I will just address a few things he was concerned about.

solution.
'''"I do not approve of Hero trying to present a "solution" mentioned in the comments. It is not any person's place to do so, and the discussion is merely a rough draft--it is not the time or place to speak of solutions. I believe that he needs to respond to things other people have said and present more ideas in the course of the discussion, rather than pull away from it and do his own thing." -math'''

I am just trying to find a solution. I have a pretty good plan that I think will help the community. I would like Math's feedback on it as well as the communities. I hope that people will like it but it is in fact a community discussion.

yri.
"While I agree with Hero that 1 youtuber is not the entire purpose of the discussion, I do not feel that Hero should be moving the discussion away from this point at this time. I would like to hear from more people on the topic of Yrimir. I am fairly confident that if the inclusion of Yrimir's videos on this wiki is addressed fairly in the discussion, most people will support having him here."-math

You seem to want to change the pace of the discussion about yrimir. I feel When someone brings up a topic in a discussion they say something and then people get a chance to respond. I believe fairly addressing the issue is allowing me to respond. I respect your opinion. You can have a favorite youtuber and I understand that. I just don't think out of the 100's of youtubers he should be anywhere near the top 10 for videos we should use.

I think that the youtuber specifically isn't the issue we should be addressing, I feel that for the wikis best interest a policy will allow for what is best regardless of the youtuber. If someone fits the guidelines then they fit them. Our wiki policy should not be developed around the conversation of 1 youtuber but a policy that is best for the wiki in general.

happypal.
'"Happypal is a bureaucrat of wiki.terrariaonline.com. However, he is also a Wikia user, made some fair points in the Wiki Mediation forum, has contributed to this community in the past, and speaks for a number of people who have left this community in the past. Should he not be included in the discussion simply because he's also a member of another wiki and because Hero doesn't trust him? As long as he says reasonable things--and I think he mostly'' does--I see no reason why he can't contribute to the discussion. He's not controlling the discussion, playing a leading role in it, or otherwise attempting to do so. In fact, he only first entered the video policy discussion when I quoted him as part of something I was saying. What's your stance on this?" -math'''

I feel his total participation in this wiki outside of the discussions is less than what is needed and since he is not a viewer because he runs the other wiki his opinion is not in the best interest of our wiki. I respect the time he has put forth in his wiki but I don't think his heart is in the right place for our wiki. His wiki is in fact our #1 competitor. They now hold the google spot we once held. It might not be looked on kindly that I belive them competition but they are.

Again I apologize for bringing this out of the discussion you set up for the matter.HeroGaming 17:09, February 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Mathmagician: I've added a comment asking Hero not to present a solution at this time, but to continue adding ideas and opinions (and for others to do the same). That might include his ideas for a solution, but they should be in the same context as other comments and not (yet) a proposal for everyone to vote on or similar.  I've also made a blog post to encourage those who mostly participate in that area to join the discussion, we should still be gathering as many perspectives and opinions as possible at this point - at least over the weekend.
 * Herogaming: I agree we don't need to discus specific youtubers at the moment - although I think it may help us to understand the issues to give examples. Certainly the idea that including new youtubers might actually encourage them to start promoting the wiki is a good one.
 * I'm OK with Happypal adding his thoughts - we can read them in the known context of his favoured editing space being the other wiki. That is, he may have useful insights and suggestions but (as with reading anyone's comments) we will read them while keeping in mind his level of involvement on the wiki, and any potential conflicts of interest or other factors that might be influencing those suggestions (no offense intended Happypal :).  I think everyone involved has the wherewithal to balance all the factors in each comment fairly. -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  21:44, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

News Regarding Discussions
Sannse, I just wanted to raise a few more points regarding the discussions, if you don't mind:

1) For the good news, the Administration Discussion may be getting ready to move on to the next step. It appears that there is a great deal of consensus there.

2) A part of the Video Policy Discussion is now over on Hero's blog. I initially disabled commenting there because we really should keep everything in one place. I changed my mind a few minutes later, because it's also important that we hear from all members of the community, and it's not entirely appropriate for me to moderate the discussion.

I do have some objections to Hero creating the blog post, as it appears to me to be skirting around the video discussion and directly presenting a solution to the community, as we talked about earlier, and I recall that you instructed him not to do so: As the discussion moderator, I'll accept your decision whether the blog post stays or is deleted / has commenting disabled / etc. My personal stance is that commenting should be disabled on the blog and that readers should comment on the discussion itself, just as it is with the blog post you created =).
 * The blog post doesn't present the full discussion to the community. It represents Hero's part in it and his interpretations of people's opinions. Users who comment on that blog likely may not be seeing the full discussion.
 * It contains what I see as an unnecessary and inappropriate banner (File:Save the wiki banner.png) which I would like to be removed (it appears as visual propaganda to rally support, similar to File:HERO vs Gracey.jpg)
 * The blog post isn't merely calling attention to the discussion, it's attempting to serve as part of the discussion, which doesn't adhere to the conversation structure that we previously agreed on.
 * On the other hand, the blog post may allow more people to have a say in the policy, and Hero did copy the contents of the blog post into the video discussion itself.

3) A portion of what I wrote the other day on the video discussion regarding "promotion" seemed to have greatly offended Hero. For myself, I was quite offended that he interpreted things very differently than I intended, did not directly address the heart of what I was saying, and, well, all of the very out of hand comments on the video discussion page...

It's been apparent since the previous forum discussion that promotion is one of the topics that Hero and other people (especially myself) disagree on the most. It is a part of the video policy discussion, and even if we put it aside for now in favor of more constructive conversation, we will need to revisit the issue. I favor talking about promotion sooner rather than putting it off until later (which is why I wrote about it), because some people have already stated some views related to it, and we're going to need time to work out that sticky issue. Mathmagician ( talk ♥ blog ) 02:39, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello Sannse i would just like to request that Heros blog be either locked or removed. He has deliberately done this, so users don't see all the points against him on the video policy page. And you clearly stated to him that he shouldn't do this in your message to him. Detailed above. Gracey91 (talk • contribs • count) 06:58, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * The blog post has been closed. I hope to look in detail at the admin discussion early this week, but will delay the next stage of the video discussion to allow anyone who wants their comments from the blog to be included to copy them over. -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png  (help forum | blog)  00:47, February 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Graey I said in the blog to go to the page and comment. I separated the post because it is hard to get feedback about an idea in the sea of text on that page. Also I don't recall not being told to post a blog I was told nt to present a solution so I presented my idea and asked for feedback on how it could be changed and what changes needed to be made. I did nothing wrong and the happypal team strikes again.....--HeroGaming 01:15, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

Sannse
Sannse you removed my blog because it was a duplicate. I lost my admin right for telling math he had created a duplicate blog and chewing him out about it. I am wanting to understand this situation. Can you explain it a little bit more to me because they are the exact same context. Math created a blog with a duplicate post from the discussion as a blog and I chewed him out about it and then lost my admin rights and was told that was censorship. Now I have created a blog in a separate place and it has been removed. Can you help me to understand this.HeroGaming 01:21, February 14, 2012 (UTC)