User talk:Equazcion

Creating categories
When creating new categories, please remember to tie them into the Category tree. Thanks! -- Wynthyst  talk  17:04, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Got it, will do. Thanks for letting me know.  Equazcion ( talk ) 17:06, 10 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Since you've been on a categorizing spree ;'] do you think there should be Comfort Item and Flat Surface Item categories for the NPC housing requirements? futRtrubL 05:04, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I categorized decorative and storage items cause I think it'll be useful for people to have a catalog of the items that only have visual appeal and items used for storage. I'm not sure if having a catalog of the items you're referring to would come into quite as much practical use, but I guess it does make sense from an obsessive-compulsive standpoint :)  Equazcion ( talk ) 09:53, 11 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Moving
So, you're gonna get the same talk as Excavator: "Rather than copy pasting info to change the name of the page, you should use the move function instead as it retains the appropriate edit history. Thanks!" --JonTheMon 20:08, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I would have, but apparently the requirements for moving a page over a redirect aren't met here (redirect created manually or a previous move already occurred). I didn't think you guys would be sticklers for maintaining history here but that's fine. Could you perform a move and history merge then? I'm not an admin so I can't do it.  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:14, 11 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, at this point, i think you should hash it out what wording is correct (get consensus) before we move it again. --JonTheMon 20:16, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Consensus huh... you move from Wikipedia to a gaming site and you think that'll let you escape it, but nooooooo. I think I'll just wait for someone else to care enough to start that up. Thanks.  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:19, 11 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Sometimes consensus is being the only person who cares enough to discuss it. --JonTheMon 20:25, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * More often it's being pretty sure you're the only one who cares, til you start a discussion and everyone suddenly forms an opinion simply because they can. Call me jaded :)  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:28, 11 Aug 2011 (UTC)

Biome Temps
For the record, that looks hideous: http://wiki.terrariaonline.com/The_Underworld are you sure the mob & drop data is necessary that high up the page? Xeroproject 20:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm working on the item link templates so we can adjust the size of the graphics included there using an additional parameter. Should be ready soon, and won't look quite as hideous :) stay tuned.  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:27, 12 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah ha! Yes that is what I was just looking into myself.  The images are great to have, but badly need re-sizing.  I'm unfortunately too new to wiki editing but I've been researching ways to do it.  It works for the Ocean page, but the ones like the Underworld with a large amount of unique mobs & items are just cluttered currently, especially on 1280x1024 res, most likely not as bad on widescreen.  I'd love to see how you can resize when you figure that out.  Xeroproject 20:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Even if you fix the images, that still too much for the infobox. It needs to be separate further down the page. --JonTheMon 20:36, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Reserve judgement til you can see the result? Also Biome pages are different from others, as the objects encountered there are really the most pertinent info.  Equazcion ( talk ) 20:38, 12 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * My original idea was to include the images, edit down the images of the "long" mobs, like EoW, Bone Serpent, etc to just show the head, however in some cases this requires editing existing files that are already linked on several pages, unless there's some way to specify in the template which file to use? Then its simple.  I was wrestling with those issues for the last few days when I was on, but didn't really come to a conclusion that wasn't going to require massive mob file standardization as a jumping off point. Xeroproject 20:41, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Jon got there first it seems -- my head wasn't on straight, I kept forgetting the # in the IF statements, couldnt figure out why it wouldnt work :) Result looks good at Ocean, no? Equazcion ( talk ) 20:48, 12 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * It's ok for now, but if "Unique Treasures" gets added, then it's too wide. That's why I want it in a separate section where width is less of an issue. --JonTheMon 20:51, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say Unique Treasures is important information, if it applies to the Biome, I know its information I personally have looked up before I started editing. I agree that Oceans looks good, but I think consistent formatting is more important.  I see how you did the Bone Serpent on the Underworld page, apparently when I did this: http://wiki.terrariaonline.com/index.php?title=The_Underworld&action=edit&oldid=34691 it wasn't correct.  Last question is, do you want the Biome information at the very bottom, with only Version History below?  Because the organization of the Tips, Notes, Version History, etc is kinda all of the place as well.  Xeroproject 21:19, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm still working on this. I think the Biome infobox should use tables rather than line breaks, as the text wrapping (or lack thereof) is what's causing most of the width problems now. If the width problems can be solved hopefully the float=right will be more feasible.  Equazcion ( talk ) 21:23, 12 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Tables can still have width issues. And I think the biome info should be the second thing on the page, under the general description. --JonTheMon 21:27, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * In the meantime I'll continue to work to get the rest of the pages in a template, with working pictures, at least then the positioning and such can be adjusted rather easily.

Templates
Please stop replacing text with box templates. It makes the pages look ridiculous and does not convey the information very clearly.

Documentation should be done first and foremost with text, only using images to enhance that text, not as a replacement for it. Thanks for your continued efforts, but please discuss this stuff more prior to implementing it. Thanks! -- Wynthyst  talk  01:02, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure what you're talking about. What text did I replace with box templates?  Equazcion ( talk ) 01:03, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * My error, I'm just really unhappy with the whole "Biome" template thing. That replaced very easy to edit and easy to follow text and inserted an ugly table, but it wasn't you that started it. Sorry. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  01:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. Change can be rough but if people like it... you might eventually too. There are always some places on a wiki that develop complex code, but they're usually portal-type spaces that don't need to receive heavy edit traffic from average users, and visual appeal is a bit higher priority that usual. Everyone can still edit the "catalog data", while the window dressing so to speak is what they might see first, as in the environment pages. If you can see what I'm getting at. Give it a chance, is all I'm saying, and try not to get stuck on how it used to be :) It's a wiki and will continue to evolve.  Equazcion ( talk ) 01:12, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * I do have to warn you about your flood in recent changes making mini tweaks to your templates. I realize that working on templates is slightly different from editing regular articles but is a bit much.... I think you would agree? And just for the record, I'm against complex code on a wiki regardless of the page it's on, Wikis need to be user friendly, and multi layer templates are NOT user friendly in most cases. I'm just really disliking replacing all the clear, and easy to edit text with big ugly tables that in a lot of aspects don't do nearly as good a job conveying the information as text would. The addition of all the icons is again, a problem as it makes the whole thing look and feel cluttered.  Your idea of removing the text link completely is out of the question btw... the text link is required.-- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]]  talk  01:17, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sir yes sir. But if you don't mind I'd like to have a more public discussion to gauge community opinion. Also I'm not sure what that link has to do with me. Did you post the right one? As far as flooding recent changes, you can filter out the template traffic pretty easily when viewing that.  Equazcion ( talk ) 01:24, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * PS. I only removed the text links from items in the "from" column, which are already present with labels elsewhere in the box and need to be shown repeatedly. It's a redundant waste to list them repeatedly for each item that can be acquired from them ("Chest, Chest, Chest, Chest, Chest.....") The icons alone, for that particular purpose, seems better. To me anyway. Equazcion ( talk ) 01:41, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, a few points. First, hell no am I going to filter out template changes; if I miss something there shit can blow up. Second, that makes the history near-useless; i'm tempted to delete and restore only a few revisions. Third, yes links; not everyone is immediately familiar with the images, and the images aren't directly linked to a page. Fourth, I still don't like the big image+table design. This version of the Underworld is about where i'll concede; it keeps the table in a good place on the page, has ok spacing, and the code isn't that hard to understand. --JonTheMon 02:53, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Please do delete and restore all but the most recent revisions if that makes things easier for you. I'm not sure why it would though, since these pages were newly created by me and aren't in use anywhere but my test pages.
 * The images are certainly linked directly to pages, as was always true with Template:Item link. I haven't removed that functionality in my version.
 * If recent changes are really that much of a problem due to my fiddling, I can take it to my user space in the future and you can filter out userspace changes instead, which won't "blow shit up".
 * I'm not sure why everyone's getting all... this way. Been a long week? But anything else, you know where to find me.  Equazcion ( talk ) 03:16, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * It's really a couple of reasons. First, it doesn't really inspire confidence that you're making so many changes, in the template namespace at that. Second, there are variants of aesthetics, but a lot of these changes seem to go beyond that and even into functionality, which crosses a line for some. As for your points, I've already addressed that template and the note about the links. If you're taking on a new project, yes, use your userspace to get the kinks out before presenting it. But still, that's a lot of edits. --JonTheMon 03:24, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Recent changes are generally not used the way you're using them, at least not on sizeable wikis. They aren't a dependable way to keep track of things (as you can see), and telling people not to make frequent test edits so that you can continue using it this way might not be the best idea, nor is it really necessary. Number of edits shouldn't have any effect on how well-functioning the wiki is. Anything that people see, and that goes wrong, will be reverted or reported by users. Anything they don't see doesn't matter until someone sees it, and anything critical is protected.


 * When you make a publicly-editable wiki you make a community, and you don't need to keep a watchful eye on all changes yourself; You're not meant to. That's the point of a wiki, and you'll drive yourselves crazy if you try to. I'm not sure why a user frequently editing template space should in and of itself "not inspire confidence"; logic does not follow there for me. I'm sure you could care less for my advice since you've taken some sort of offense at my tampering with your template space, even though I've mainly been creating new ones, rather than editing those that exist (I would not make sweeping changes to existing interface items without discussing them). But there you have it anyway.  Equazcion ( talk ) 03:35, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes things change when you're a large wiki, but this is a smaller wiki, so things can be different. Aside from template and RC etiquette, there's still an issue of design: text size, links, image sizes, etc. I think the text could use a little bump in size (back to normal), text links are helpful and direct, and while I'm ok with the icons, having an image that creates so much white space just affects functionality, imo. --JonTheMon 03:49, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Text links should be there for the new items that are the point of the page to present, such as in the underworld's case, the Demon and Imp for example. To have the word "Chest" or even "Shadow Chest" spelled out over and over again, just because many things are found there, doesn't do much to describe the underworld to people and can (should?) receive less focus. I'm not sure which image(s) you're saying cause whitespace. Feel free to contribute your own changes to my test templates to illustrate what might make it more to you liking though.  Equazcion ( talk ) 04:01, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * As I said before, i prefer this edit over an older one due to the placement of the main image. As for text vs icons, I say always use text and use icons only for primary text in lists (so, not in the parentheses text). To be honest, I don't think that there need to be pictures (especially full-sized ones) for the imps and demons. --JonTheMon 04:10, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Since you've been referring to those I'm not sure if you saw this: User:Equazcion/sandbox2, which has much smaller images. It's a floating box so text will wrap around it rather than creating any whitespace. I do think some form of shorthand is adviseable to inform people of where items can be found, rather than displaying that information just as prominently as the items themselves -- if not as text-less icons, then maybe as abbreviation codes (that will still link to their respective pages). <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 04:21, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Just the bottom part by itself might be ok. Combining it with the top just makes for a too-large box. Using shorthand saves space, but it can be less obvious to end users; at that point smaller explanation text can be used. And if we go there, having a normal table in its own section should give enough room to not be too cramped. --JonTheMon 04:30, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The existing Underworld page has an image in the top-right to illustrate its appearance, which I think would continue ending up there even if removed, as it seems appropriate to prominently show what an environment looks like on its page. Combining the two into a box doesn't cramp things significantly more than keeping them separate. I added the Underworld's text content so you can get a better idea of the box's effect on readability. <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 04:42, 13 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * At around 1280 wide it starts to be less obtrusive, but if you keep it around 900-1000 wide, then it sucks up half the width, and that's just not cool. --JonTheMon 04:45, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
Where was it discussed and given consensus to move the environment pages to the singular? The links on the mainpage are for the plural, and mainpage links should NEVER be redirects. Please move them back. Thanks! -- Wynthyst  talk  06:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It wasn't discussed, but they were all already in the singular aside from those two I moved. Do we really need to conduct a discussion about something so trivial as whether or not the minority should conform? It might be easier to just change the main page links. I'll move them back if you really think this is worth holding a discussion over, but I really don't think it's a controversial enough move to warrant that. <font face="Century Gothic"> Equazcion ( talk ) 06:18, 16 Aug 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it needs to be discussed and agreed upon. -- Wynthyst [[Image:User Wynthyst sig icon.png ]] talk  15:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)