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  • The Pathogen
    The Pathogen closed this thread because:
    Temporarily closing due to continued discussion tracking further and further from the matter at hand.
    07:13, February 23, 2015

    As a pre-poll statement, I invite everyone to offer their own suggestions as to what "best" could mean when referring to a prefix on an item. It's almost irrelevant to try and assign a "best" prefix to an accessory, as those are dependent on where the accessories are being used and what against. This is mainly directed at weapons and spells, as throughout the wiki there are many pages proclaiming the "best" prefix for an item, though when it isn't Unreal/Legendary/Mythical, doubts and debates can arise and they certainly have in places.
    What do you think best describes the "best prefix/reforge" for a weapon or spell?
     
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    The poll was created at 11:03 on December 18, 2014, and so far 153 people voted.

    I've long considered trying to finalize this reference, but I cannot come to a decision myself and it would in no way be fair if I did so. So I ask the entire wiki, what do you consider to be the most accurate blanket term for the statement "best reforge/prefix".

    This is all I will say for now, let's see what we get as a reply from all. :) 2016_wikia_image_template.png  iPathos | Talk Page | Thu 18 December 2014, 11:06

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    • i think we (all wikia contributers) should start posting both.  i think it could be kind of usefull, i personally don't care that much about mana consumption, and having that extra 3 percent of damage can make all the difference. 

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    • In my perspective when there are two prefixes that are respectively on par with each other, such as Godly and Legendary. It comes down to the player to decide which one they would prefer. For example they might choose between more Knock Back or Higher Speed. 

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    • The Sacred Knight wrote: In my perspective when there are two prefixes that are respectively on par with each other, such as Godly and Legendary.

      Legendary covers size and speed, which is what Godly lacks. There is no contest that Legendary is the best for melee weapons. Also, Unreal is the best for ranged, Mythical is the best for magic. There is very little to discuss when those weapons can get said prefixes, but when they can't, that's where it's down to opinion, mostly.

      So let's look at melee weapons. We have Broadswords(Picks,Axes, Hammers and Scythes fall into into this), Spears and Boomerang.

      For all broadsword type, Legendary is always the best, when you are using them as weapons(There are exception, but I'll get to those later). Spears and boomerangs can only get Godly as best because they cannot have size modifiers. Most people would indeed get Godly as the best prefix for those weapons, but some prefer Ruthless so they have more damage per hit. But, Overall, Godly is the best for all weapon when they can't get the top three.

      Now, let's look at range weapons. We have guns, bows(repeaters as well), rockets and the unique(Piranha Gun and Harpoon). Wherever it is possible, Unreal is the best modifiers for those weapons. Only when they don't have knockback that people go for something else. Godly is out of the question for Minishark and Clockwork Assault Rifle as they have no knockback, hence the best for them are either demonic for overall stats, or rapid, for better use time and DPS in general. Chain Gun on the other hand, fulfills the requirement for Unreal, but can only get Godly or Rapid. For more damage per hit, it is without a doubt that Godly is better, but in terms of DPS, Rapid far outstrips Godly for chain gun. But for the others, most of them can get Unreal without a problem.

      For Magic weapons, Mythical is the best in terms of damage, use time and mana cost. And this is no issue with most magic weapons, actually, since all of them have mana cost and knockback(At least, I think so). But some can't get Mythical either for the sake of balance, or an oversight by the devs. So that leaves us with Godly for damage, or Masterful for lower mana cost.

      Now, a special case, tools. While they are melee weapons, some actually benefit more with Light prefix, as it increases their usefulness as tools. The simplest is Shroomite Digging Claw. With the Light Prefix, it is quite easy to reach maximum digging speed than using Legendary.

      Sorry for being long-winded, but it all boils down to:

      Melee = Legendary(broadsword mechanic), Godly(everything else)

      Range = Unreal(Has Knockback), and Demonic(For Minishark/C.A.R). For Chain Gun, it's Godly for damage per hit, Rapid for damage per second.

      Magic = Mythical(Most), Godly(Next best damage), Masterful(mana cost and slightly lower damage than godly)

      Tools = Light

      I'm also delaying my thoughts on Summoning weapons, as those will get their own set of prefixes in 1.3. Right now they are lumped together with Magic weapons, even though most of those bonuses don't mean much to them.

      Well, that's my conclusion. If anyone has anything else to add, feel free to come forward.

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    • I'm a member of the second group - for example, a Rapid Chain Gun is an excellent thing to have. Another example would be a magic weapon that decreases mana cost, allowing for longer fights.

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    • DPS is everything. Whichever deals the most DPS is my favorite. Enough said.

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    • CaptainSnakeloots wrote:
      i think we (all wikia contributers) should start posting both.  i think it could be kind of usefull, i personally don't care that much about mana consumption, and having that extra 3 percent of damage can make all the difference. 

      Yup. 3% can determine wether yah kill the enemy or get killed yahself.

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    • If were talking DPS here I think we all Love The Epic Rapid Chain Gun

      Faster speed=More DPS=Killing enemy faster+equiped with Lucky coin=Effeicent Money Farm (Spyro Tested) :D

      Also a Heavy speed modifier would be Good for spells such as Crystal Strom Becouse more DPS

      Also if you do have the Chain gun With Clorofight (IDK how to spell it) Bullets You could take down Even the Hardest of bosses Easily (Spyro Tested) Im not so Sure about Events tho... (Spyro Tested on Both Moon Events) so yea I hope my comment isent too long as i dont usally post long posts so yea.. Thats All From me :D

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    • TerrariamcSwaggins
      TerrariamcSwaggins removed this reply because:
      Merging the corrections above.
      15:36, December 19, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • TerrariamcSwaggins
      TerrariamcSwaggins removed this reply because:
      Merging the corrections above.
      15:36, December 19, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • I should declare that I have not take part in this vote because I have different ideas with different weapons.

      When I use a sword with complete property (it can be "Legendary"), I always let it "Legendary" instead of "Ruthless"(has the most damage). But if some weapon do not have 'knowback' or 'size'(it can not be "Legendary"), I am not sure if I would let them "Godly". Maybe "Ruthless" is the best choice of some weapons without "size"  because it a mathematical question between “damage” and “critical strike chance” and “knockback” is more useless in some time.

      What else I think the "reforge/prefix" shoud become richer or even include all combination of every property.

      Sorry for my bad Chinglish.

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    • Freenight wrote:

      Now, a special case, tools. While they are melee weapons, some actually benefit more with Light prefix, as it increases their usefulness as tools. The simplest is Shroomite Digging Claw. With the Light Prefix, it is quite easy to reach maximum digging speed than using Legendary.

      If i remember correcty, prefix can not effect tools "using speed" in v1.2. What it effect is just “brandish speed”.

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    • In reply to Spyro, as my "Quote" button is not working,

      The Rapid prefix adds 15% speed (I'll only be considering speed and damage here) while Godly adds 15% damage.

      Let's assume that the Chain Gun does 100 DPS, for utility purposes.

      In that case, Godly makes it do 115 DPS. Rapid increases the firing rate by 15%, resulting in an additional 15% of total damage being dealt. The DPS is the same.

      Take in mind the other attributes, and you have a winner, though it's mostly situational.

      If I did my math wrong, feel free to correct me.

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    • 652Graystripe wrote:
      I'm a member of the second group - for example, a Rapid Chain Gun is an excellent thing to have. Another example would be a magic weapon that decreases mana cost, allowing for longer fights.

      I just have some different ideas. First, "Rapid" has the same cost with "Demonic", they are all "the most great prefix". Then, if I want to use a magic weapon for a long fight, i must be wearing a "Mana Flower" and bring lots of "Mana Potion". It just like when you use a gun, you must bring some bullets.

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    • Reflecting for a long time, I think my opinion is prefering to the first option.

      There are two key points in this question: "what can be prefix" and "how to use". The first point means if a melee weapon has no knockback or size, shuld it can be reforge into a Legendary one? I think if a sword has no knock back can be reforge into a Legendary one exactly with its hidden benifit of knockback or a imaginary percentage, it is unquestionable to choose a Lengendary one. The second point means if we use our weapons to fight a boss or some “dogfaces”, or even use then as tools. “Anti-aircraft gun fight mosquitoes” is alway undesirable, so some time we think of reduce our weapons‘ power to increase their speed. Infact, I always craft more than one same weapons just for some different profixes.

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    • 123777tw wrote: If i remember correcty, prefix can not effect tools "using speed" in v1.2. What it effect is just “brandish speed”.

      You will find that weapon prefixes do affect mining speed here.

      I'll go into some details, but you can find the rest there.

      Tools, being melee weapons, have two use times. One is useAnimation, the other is useTime. useAnimation, as you correctly guessed, governs the speed of the swing. However, useTime governs the mining(tool) aspect. You can have a tool that swings slower than its use speed, and vice versa. Now, weapon prefixes affect "speed". Speed affects both the useAnimation and useTime, meaning that you do mine faster when you have a speed boosting prefix.

      But, what you are confusing with is "melee speed", like violent, that can be found on accessory prefixes. Melee speed does indeed only affect useAnimation, but not useTime, hence making them useless in digging faster. This also means armors that boost melee speed like shadow armor useless for useTime. Also, one of the core programmers of the game themselves confirmed the data on that thread I linked.

      Hope that clears things up.

      123777tw wrote: Then, if I want to use a magic weapon for a long fight, i must be wearing a "Mana Flower" and bring lots of "Mana Potion". It just like when you use a gun, you must bring some bullets.

      Not saying you are wrong, but pro-magic users rarely rely on Mana Potions as that would reduce their overall DPS. Masterful would be necessary in those cases where they like to be able to shoot magic without facing the penalty of -25%~5% magic damage.

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    • Freenight wrote: Not saying you are wrong, but pro-magic users rarely rely on Mana Potions as that would reduce their overall DPS. Masterful would be necessary in those cases where they like to be able to shoot magic without facing the penalty of -25%~5% magic damage.

      Yeah you are right. I have tried it in v1.2.4.1 just now and see the effect clearly. Maybe it was different in v1.2.1.2 or what I remembered was completely wrong. And I did not refer to accessory prefixes.

      But I was really confused by “pro-magic users rarely rely on Mana Potions as that would reduce their overall DPS.” I don‘t know if it means Mana Flower might take one accessory position wich can accommodate another powerful one or pressing Mana Potion might take more time in fighting. Glad to see your review.

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    • Unconsciously, our talks were a little carried away. What the administrator wanted was how to define the best reforge/prefix.

      According to the situation(the poor prefixes), none of them is the best reforge/prefix absolutely. What we can find out is one or more reforges/prefixes is the best reforges/prefixes relatively. And I always believe the author of Terraria. The new cost of the new reforge/prefix is enough to show its adaptation to any situation on the battlefield. "Legendary","Unreal" and "Mystical" are always the best reforges/prefixes relaticely when a weapon can be reforged into it. What else is just someone doesn't like the so-called "best refotge/prefix" and we can dispay all the possibility of what they are and why. Or I advice that change "the best/reforge/prefix" to "the most expensive reforge/prefix" because we can not define it easily.

      "Sorry for being long-winded."

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    • It's really situational on the weapon, honestly.

      Think of the Pulse Bow. It's not built for direct combat, being a rather weak weapon but having that nice ricocheting ability. It is built for indirect, often moving, combat, and as such damage isn't quite as important. Firing speed, so you can have as many shots as possible, is.

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    • Personally, i prefer the 'Highest Ranked', but there should also be the Most effective for a Weapon, either on the item page or added in a table for the Most effective Prefix's Weapons of the same Category (Guns, Bows, Swords, Axes and whatnot)... Just a thought.

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    • Ruthless is best for spears as it gives the most extra damage and allows for more hits. Low KB is great for spears as it means more hits. Ruthless is best on high damage low speed and high KB weaponry like the sniper rifle IMO.

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    • 27 is my favorite number wrote:
      Ruthless is best for spears as it gives the most extra damage and allows for more hits. Low KB is great for spears as it means more hits. Ruthless is best on high damage low speed and high KB weaponry like the sniper rifle IMO.

      This review is only talking about "the Mathematical question", if you are not interested in it, you can skip.

      I quite agree with “Low KB is great for spears as it means more hits.”But I do not think "Ruthless is best on high damage low speed and high KB weaponry" is always right. I means when it is used for fighting bosses, the “Critical Strike Chance” is also a key factor of DPS. And I have said, "it a mathematical question between 'Damage' and 'Critical Strike Chance'."It depends on how much the 'Critical Strike Chance' your other equipments have given.


      We can assume that when a “Critical Strike Chance” happened, the damage can be doubled(maybe it is not accurate, but it is enough to the question). Then the

      DPH(Damage Per Hit) = Damage + Damage * Critical Strike Chance = Damage * (1+Critical Strike Chance).

      Changing "Ruthless" to "Godly" can be seen as exchanging 2% Damage for 5% Critical Strike Chance.

      If the old Critical Strike Chance is 0%, the

      old DPH = Damage * (1+0%) = 100%Damage.

      When we exchange them, the

      new DPH = 98%Damage * (1+5%) = 102.9%Damage.

      We can see the DPH increased by 2.9%.

      So, is 27 is my favorite number's opinion wrong? Wait!...

      If the old Critical Strike Chance is 50%, 

      old DPH = Damage * (1+50%) = 150%Damage.

      When we exchange them, the 

      new DPH = 98%Damage * (1+55%) = 151.9%Damage.

      We can see the DPH only increased by 1.9%.

      We boldly hypothesis, If the old Critical Strike Chance is 500%, the 

      old DPH = Damage * (1+500%) = 600%Damage.

      When we exchange them, the 

      new DPH = 98%Damage * (1+505%) = 59.9%Damage.

      We can see the DPH unexpectedly reduced by 1.9%.

      It is basically impossible, but would make us a little worry about “Godly is the best profix for spears”, because the “quid pro quo” is likely to be changed by "Rounding off" as exchanging 3% Damage for 5% Critical Strike Chance or exchanging 1% Damage for 5% Critical Strike Chance or sometimes even exchanging 0% Damage for 5% Critical Strike Chance.

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    • If one thinks about it - anything increasing crit chance is the best for something like the Sniper Rifle, as having high damage relies exclusively on crits. Almost.

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    • 652Graystripe wrote:
      If one thinks about it - anything increasing crit chance is the best for something like the Sniper Rifle, as having high damage relies exclusively on crits. Almost.

      Sniper Rifle is really a good example which I did not think of before — Nothing can be a boss in front of it→_→ Random events always let us nervous as everyone likes everything is under plan. The 2% Damsge maybe let us kill one within one hit instead of two, and the Critical Strike Shance is not important unless it can be 100%~

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    • It also depends on what enemy you're facing. For example, a prefix that increases velocity would be good on a faster boss, while a prefix that increases damage would help against a heavily armored enemy.

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    • You guys are so clever! I do use lucky a lot on my accs because I know that it should give higher Damage potential (not always DPS, as in some cases you do not land a crit all the time, or become unlucky), but I forgot about it there. I usually go for ruthless or demonic on weapons. Demonic is a poor mans godly, with a little less damage and no KB bonus in return for cheaper and better for the spears

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    • I use tools that have power, velocity, or speed. I dont care what they are, as long as it has power and speed.

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    • Alright, can this thread be silent, closed, and sleeping right now?

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    • I am going to close this thread for the time being, I will possibly re-open it once the 1.3 update is released with Summoner Prefixes, so that we may get a more final answer.

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